I haven’t read everything in this topic, but it seems to me there is a lot of different opinions whether a death penalty should be there or how severre it should (or should’t) be. I think there are three things worth considering:
LE is just a game. It’s a past time you pay for / invest in (money and your time), and as such it should be pleasurable. What is a pleasure differs from person to person of course. But, as any game it is not eternal, and eventually you will get bored with it, and that’s ok. I hope that after you quit you will do so full of positive memories of the time spent playing, not with resentment becasue of a mechanic that tried to make you play longer and subsequently made you quit sooner.
The what you’re being penalized for is important, or more precisely, how your character died. If for whatever reason, you feel it was unfair, you will be more opposed to a penalty then if you believe it was your mistake. Things like a boss one shotting you from off-screen feel unfair, and a penalty unjust. And even when you play after a day’s work, and just want to take it slow and avoid the challenging bosses, you know you’re tired and will make mistakes. You expect the game to be forgiving then as well, so your threshold of what you accept as a penalty is higher. Somehow, some developers expect the player’s to be focussed and on the edge of their seet all the while playing, even though it takes hundreds of hours to get to the point of penalty free play (like lvl 100).
As long as this game has an offline mode, you will be able to play without an xp penalty, so there is always hope for us who absolutely refuse a game that is wasting our time by reverting progress we made via penalties. You can bet on it there will be mods or hacks and offline xp-penaltyless mode is going to be near the top of most downloaded ones.
As a final note, it never ceases to surprise me how little people learn from decades of psychology research, despite of all the proof that in the long run, punishemnt does not pay, but rewarding does. Maybe that’s why we still have prisons and folks insisting on death penalty, whether in a game or real world…
I like LE, but if xp penalty will be there then bb… Death penalty is main reason why I stop playing POE… most annoying thing ever from times of old diablo
D2’s death penalty was harsh, but we all put up with it because … there was nothing else like it to play and it was a mechanic that was not going to go away. We coped and dealt with it in our own ways.
Once I got into the low 90’s I would level up mostly on mindless trash farming and once I had got another level I would spend a few days farming bosses not caring if I died. Then back to levelling. Rinse and repeat.
“You can take my XP, but you’ll never take my Level”
Of course you plan to make leveling more of a grind and add a death penalty. Gotta cater to those hardcores that whine about everything being too easy.
Please reconsider death penalties, especially ones that effect exp. One thing I loath from PoE is that I lose exp every time I die. The current penalty in monoliths is already more than I’d like. Adding some exp penalty on top of that will quickly kill my enjoyment of this game.
That might be the core of the game for you. But for me I avoid games that take away the time I’ve put into them. D2, PoE, the death penalties in them keep me form enjoying them. And clearly many people in this thread agree with me.
I couldn’t agree more. I played POE from beta until a few weeks ago & although I enjoyed it immensely I never lvl’d any of my 30 characters past 95. The grinding sucked and losing 10% of exp seemed ok early on but was more than punitive when you get to lvl 90 and above. In fact, the death exp penalty was what finally made me quit POE and begin LE. When a lvl 100 char is feasible I would finish and re-play as another completely different type. That is what I’m hoping to do with LE. Please leave out the exp penalty as it is a real soul killer and takes a lot of the joy out of playing. Thanks.
Well It definitely feels imbalanced at the moment. Completing level 90 MoF easy with my lvl 80 sorc doesn’t feel right. Plus I only gained 2 levels while doing it. Started the lvl 90 timeline at 78. I expected to level faster than that or struggle to complete the higher content.
The assumption that everyone has to reach lvl 100 is wrong. it should be an achievement that people might want to pursue but it should require time and skill to get. The idea that you can come up with the most rubbish build, wear some low quality items and still beat the game is a throw off to me. It looks like another attempt to force “everyone is a winner” mentality into the game, you don’t want that. WOW has choosen this path and turned into a meme game. This can cause a domino effect because first people start complaining about the exp loss and then they post on forum that the bosses are too hard and need to be nerfed because they meme builds cannot handle them. End game should be challenging and the death should have its price, otherwise the game will be a snooze-fest.
At the same time Devs should spend a lot of time on balancing classes, so that there will be a variety of builds that can beat the game (granted that someone has put enough effort into getting the gear and is a good player overall).
"I think losing progress on arena and monolith is already a death penalty. "
I’m okay with death penalty in PoE because it’s a completely different level of game.
the knowledge required to play that game is absolutely insane but once you have it, death becomes less of an issue.
The game offers too much freedom that newer player get lost easily. and/or try some build they come up only to get destroyed.
which leads to bunch of players copy pasting builds of other skilled players.
while it offers them some guide to end game but still have no idea of the game which leads to more death in the late game. MOSTLY coming from running insanely op mods on maps.
But these complexity is what attracts top players like alkaizer darkee dan steelmage etc.
Last Epoch shouldn’t have to be so complex like PoE.
like D3 , just grab whatever skills and gears and kill things, move on in 1 - 2 weeks.
People meme D3 but D3 is a fun game.
So I dont think the game needs death penalty, losing progress in arena or MoF is good enough. Just smash and have fun.
As you explore dungeons, you gather ingredients that go into a cauldron.
When you’re in town, you can buy the contents of the cauldron (you must take them all at once).
The more ingredients in the cauldron, the better the prizes you receive when you buy them.
Contents of the cauldron are lost on death.
This is a great example of encouraging players to play skillfully because you can see those sweet, sweet prizes being leveled up as you go into deeper dungeons. Having them visually represented as they transform from bronze to silver to gold makes you feel like there’s something very real on the line as you play, and boy does it feel bad when you lose a big, sparking set.
The genius part is that death doesn’t actually bork your progress, but still hurts psychologically. I’ll have to run into the dungeon to claim my corpse, but I keep my XP and still feel like I’ve made headway, even if I feel like cursing my own hubris for not claiming the cauldron sooner.
It doesn’t negate time played, it rewards skill, and the relief of finally buying a cauldron loaded with goodies can be the capstone of a long night in the dungeons.
I don’t really know how much you can really preversely psychologically develop a game in which you are focused on really just making a satisfying enough skinners box based on extraction of wealth (I guess some are pioneering this with loot boxes and certain mechanics). I guess for little kids but I would of thought for the ARPG audience being I presume older this is such a unserious risk and would hilariously backfire in obvious exposure if they attempted to design around such goals.
I know that after level 100 is the perfect gear grind. Which seems like a chore in this game because of the poor crafting system, bad loot and lack of a filter.
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