Lessons from other aRPG's and hopes for Last Epoch

I’m not even sure how much censorship (if any) exists on Last Epoch… it’s my first post. I guess we will see…

Picture that you are that toolmaker standing behind the knight. The knight is complaining about a hammer and in his hands and has no clue you have moder weaponry in yours.

That, for me, as a +10-year-old veteran of Path of Exile describes perfectly what’s going on over there and I hope that this post can shed some light.

Every league we see the same slaughterhouse.

The little data we have says that most players never get to fully experience the game.

So, you have a game that sheds 100,000 - 150,000.

During those two weeks, everyone is gearing up. The majority of top level players are trying their best to get the gear they need to farm. As soon as their setup goes online they are off to the races and start to farm divination cards (usually, most of them try to farm for a Mirror of Kalandra or Headhunter / Mageblood). That farm, usually doesn’t stop. It goes on for the entire league.

This means that the supply of these items increasing overtime.

So, you have market with the following conditions:

  1. The vast majority of players are leaving by the 2 week.
  2. A decrease in demand of these top tier items.
  3. An increase supply of these top tier items.


Take a look:

This is what price manipulation looks like folks.

Every single league it’s the same.

We’ve come forward with videos of top tier lieutenants from the largest groups admiting to doing RMT. Nothing happens.

We have posts on reddit of BOT farmers admitting to RMT. Nothing happens.

We have streamers (+90%) that all remain silent or try to say it’s just “drama”.

We have forum moderators that delete posts, or move posts into “feedback”, or simply ban you outright.

This is what you guys should not allow in LE.

I really have high hopes for this game.

If you see any streamer at all realted to The Forbidden Trove, ban them. It’s just a huge RMT ring. They will come here and anywhere they have to. Their usual approach is quite basic: ad hominem attacks or rage-bait. If that doesn’t work, they will try to be as controversial as possible to get posts removed.

If you want to learn more, ask away.

Last Epoch, PoE is dying. RMT is too entrenched. It has corrupted Reddit PoE-sub moderators. It has corrupted streamers. It has corrupted a large portion of the player base. Don’t let them in. Please.

In words of a bot-owner that made an AMA on reddit: “The core of the game is located at a point of elite players and botters. It’s set higher than in regular MMOs. Regular players won’t acquire wealth, they will RMT”.

For reference:
[AMA] A rich player from the dark side : pathofexile (reddit.com)

…I feel like this post is missing a point about Last Epoch.


What lets TFT function is the lax trading in Path of exile, no instant buyouts, abillity to infinitely trade goods, and no taxes.

Last epoch has none of those features.

This post is just a drama post about TFT in a game you clearly have not read a thing about how trade will work.

I love PoE, and I love LE, but the games wont have the same user base, or the same style of balance.

This post has no relation to LE at all other then they both happen to be arpgs. did you also post this for D2 forums?


ohhhh this is the tft thing, I was so confused trying to work out how poe had drama with teamfight tactics lmfao


To be fair, this whole practice did start with D2. And the only reason it wasn’t exacerbated in D3 was because players caused the RMT auction house to shut down.

haha yeah, i should just type out forbidden trove, it gets lots of people not deep into both games haha.

technically speaking the tax in poe trading is the friction it requires from the buyer (hence why TFT is so successful)

Other than the RMT stuff (which came later anyway), I think the main reason TFT and the other discord channel, which I forget the name now, were so successfull was because they allowed you to trade stuff that the game didn’t, like crafts, betrayal benches, temple corrupts, carries, etc.
That was their initial goal, I believe, before turning into RMT.

While the posters that mentioned LE is different in ways that should severely hinder the kind of mechinations they descibed from PoE are not wrong. I would not completely dismiss the warnings. The $$$ motivation for those outside entrepenuers to try and profit from any loophole left open, or code that can be broken, is very strong. Sadly I think it is not a question of if but only of how soon after launch.


I am sure you could make that point without asking for any persons to be banned just for being affiliated with a 3rd party. OP has stirred drama in the PoE forums and is known to be condescending af. I’d like to bring into question if he is well-intentioned or just holding grudges

Is there any other real purpose for the third party referenced in the op besides skirting or outright breaking the ToS of the game?

Yes, TFT is a hub for safely trading things the game normally doesn’t allow you to trade, such as boss carries, services, bulk trading and so on. That is what 99% of the playerbase use it for.
The head honchos are more likely than not involved in the RMT business. There’s been a recent drama-train about it (again) which is why OP feels emboldened to make the suggestion. Doesn’t mean that everyone using TFT should be cast out.

For reference, this is his original post on the PoE forums: General Discussion - Why not throw the ring into the sea? - Forum - Path of Exile

Also check some of his replies. It should be enlightening as to his character

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100%. This is nothing more than a drama-llama rant about the state of POE. Scribbling “And I don’t want to see it in LE!” on a piece of construction paper and glue sticking it to the end of that rant doesn’t make it about LE.

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yeah… this is just the free market at work. It’s great.

If LE garners the same size player base, and need for RMT (which, POE’s base game design leans towards), I’d be surprised. I just think this fear over RMT taking over LE has been a big nothing-burger boogeyman, since Day 1. Will there be RMT in LE? Certainly. it’s impossible to prevent. Will it be (or would it have ever been) anywhere near what’s in POE? I highly doubt it.


Yeah pretty much this.

RMT cant be deleted, if you have trade you have RMT in some fashion somewhere possibly.

The question is, if there is tons of restrictions/hoops to jump through, is there enough demand for it to be profitable for RMTers?

League of legends, a pvp game with no big 200k hours to make items has rmt because people are lazy and will just buy new accounts rather then leveling one when they get banned/want a elo reset.

some people buy accounts with lots of skins for cheaper then it would be to buy the skins from teh shop, etc etc etc.

Games with no “get this and win” still have rmt.

RMT is a waste of time to devote 24/7 resources to defeating. Sure have someone that looks at sus stuff happening. but this idea “if this happens the game is doomed!!!” no, D3 had literally sanctioned rmt and the game moved past it and didnt immediately die despite what some arpg players will tell you it did.

If you have multiplayer, actually.
Don’t even need trade, RMT can (and probably will) exist on carries and insta-levelling.

Yeah, I’m not sure what the point of the thread was until the last 2 or 3 sentences?

Technically, it has all of those features except lax trading.

I’m not even entirely sure what that was about, other than a streamer getting banned from there for not sucking up or something?

Most likely, I suspect EHG’s view is to try & make it less easy for the RMTers while not too heavily impacting proper players. Also, the box price is going to be a deterrent.

The day someone gets banned for who they know is a dark day indeed.


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There are many many virtual tractor trailer size piles of d4 duriel mats out there still being sold that refute that point.