To add to that: They can easily still give gold refunds for the 1.0 cycle once 1.1 ends and they do indeed change stuff and have the system in place.
Everyone still has their 1.0 stashes after all
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This is still relevant, mates.
With the upcoming reset it would be a good opportunity to change your approach for this, EHG.
You can still refund the 1.0 cycle gold and please keep doing so for all upcoming cycles too.
Those who don’t play legacy won’t care but for those who do this is important.
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I’d go so far as to say that for individuals like myself, who were planning on playing Legacy and only really hopping on Cycle in limited circumstances, EHG continuing to not address the stash tab/gold issue has completely killed our motivation to play.
I rolled a character for 1.1 but only played them halfheartedly in comparison to my 1.0 experience, thanks to this problem. And I haven’t logged into Last Epoch in a few weeks at this point: According to Steam I last played on August 13th. I keep checking back on forums/the Steam game page to see if there is any update on the matter, and doubt my feelings/motivation will change unless, at a bare minimum, we get a gold refund for the already-purchased 1.0 tabs.
Again, this is about my time as a player being respected. If the developers are going to casually discard hours of in-game work, then I am going to pursue entertainment elsewhere. My free time is too valuable to waste on such an easily-remedied situation.
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Adding my WTF to this thread also.
“I just don’t understand where the expectation is coming from in the first place. It feels like this is being looked at this as though we’re withholding something that was earned. While I would think it’s more like we’re not giving double value for the tabs.”
Assuming this is an actual quote: I simply don’t understand anyone, especially a rep from the creator, that doesn’t understand this.
You ARE withholding something I earned. An in game stash tab costs in game gold. Each gold coin in game represents a unit of time that I have personally spent to acquire it. When I spend 1000 Gold on a stash tab, that 1000 gold represents an EARNED resource that I earned through playing the game and spending the time to acquire it…thus the stash tab, once purchased represents an EARNED resource…I spent an earned resource to purchase a thing, that thing becomes the Earned resource now.
“While I would think it’s more like we’re not giving double value for the tabs.”
So we agree, here, that a tab has some form of value. Nothing “Free” has value in a game so since you’ve agreed that a stash tab has “value”, and since I cannot USE that stash tab in Legacy, by definition it is something withheld that was earned. I payed X Gold in Cycle to have a “deposit/withdraw” stash tab and when transferred over to Legacy you gave me a “withdraw only” stash tab…by definition this is "withholding something that was earned…thus negating the original postulate.
Now we’re just dithering about how MUCH value that thing has.
This is not a difficult concept and it’s nothing more than corporate double speak by people who don’t want to admit they screwed the pooch and disenfranchised tens of thousands of customers out of hours of their time.
If I have to buy a stash tab, that stash tab is as valuable as an item I get that drops in game. You’ve already decided that items have value because you carry them over to legacy for me…ensuring that an item I find is never lost. Yet for my stash tabs you intentionally force me to LOSE those tabs by making them retrieve only and not replacing them in legacy nor refunding the cost for them.
I spend money on Cycle to buy a tab, that tab belongs to me…if you are not going to carry that tab in a usable way over to legacy, the gold I spend on those tabs on cycle should be refunded, otherwise there is NO REASON to play cycle ever.
With your current system every Cycle character is throwing time and effort away. You can’t really play the game without buying stash tabs and every stash tab you buy on cycle is throwing that money away for a TEMPORARY resource.
Instead EVERY player should IGNORE cycle and ONLY play legacy, that way their work is not nullified and no player is disenfranchised of their time spent buying stash tabs.
As a business, if your customer service people can’t figure this out, they should be replaced…it’s as simple as that. 10’s of thousands of players spent a collective 100s of thousands of hours obtaining the gold for the 100’s of thousands of stash tabs that you have made unavailable to those same players. That is not giving double value for anything, that’s robbing tens of thousands of customers of hundreds of thousands of hours of gameplay.
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It is an actual quote, yeah
https://i.imgur.com/nqcsHHs.png
It was in the official LE Discord server
@Tempyrr
That’s why I only played legacy in 1.1. Had I known this would happen I would have played legacy in 1.0 too but for flair reasons I joined the first cycle, assuming everything would transfer over because EHG generally very much respects our playtime and grind invested. I regret that, my experience would have been the same in legacy only that no progress would have been lost ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Ladies and Gentlemen, there is hope
First they didn’t had a good solution for cycle to legacy and now, after 1.1.7, I cannot use the stash at all in a proper way because it freezes the game for seconds or even minutes for some others.
My patience is soon running out 
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My plan was to only play Legacy in 1.1, but I had a friend who was interested in starting Cycle characters. And yup, with the new patch out and no resolution to this issue (along with the lag when swapping between stash versions, that Shadowsquirrel mentioned), I find myself increasingly distanced from Last Epoch by the day. I just logged in for the first time in weeks just to see what the stash situation was, and upon finding it unchanged immediately logged out.
As it stands I don’t think I’m going to be coming back to this game until, at a minimum, our gold is refunded or some equivalent action is taken. At this point I’ve mentally and emotionally moved on, and I imagine other people have as well. It makes me think of the old saying about the opposite of love not being hate, but apathy. Nothing is quicker to induce apathy than destroying hours of player effort and doing nothing to make players whole.
I’ll keep checking back on forums/patch notes every once in a while just in case something does meaningfully change.
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You have the remove-only tabs. This is storage space for all your previously acquired items. The items and the storage space are still there. If EHG refunds the gold, the people can buy more stash tabs for more storage space, leaving the old stuff still in the remove only tabs.
That’s the idea where this ‘double the value’ comes from.
Personally, I don’t think that refunding the gold and therefore creating more value is an issue for the game. It probably won’t flood the economy with endless amounts of gold.
Let’s just use another game as an example for why I think your perspective is a bit out of line.
I bought roughly 20 premium stash tabs in PoE before they introduced the special stash tabs, like currency tab.
Every time I play a league, I get a bunch of remove only tabs in legacy, but not a single fully usable stash tab. I paid money for them. Real money, not ingame currency. Should I throw a tantrum that GGG should send me $50 for each league, because they invalidated my time and punished me so hard?
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What you’re describing is not even equivalent…or correct. I played quite a bit of PoE, and it’s true that when you purchase a stash tab during a league and the league ends, that you get a remove-only version of that tab. But you also get a normal, usable version of that tab in Standard league - the equivalent of Last Epoch’s Legacy. So by the definition you’re using, Path of Exile gives players double value, and even better, it’s immediate double value, because you actually get that stash tab in Standard right away, as well. Then, when the League ends, you get remove-only versions of all your tabs, and can migrate items into their equivalent, fully usable Standard tabs when you’re ready to.
There’s no real reason that Last Epoch shouldn’t have copied this system exactly. I have huge issues with so many decisions that Grinding Gear Games has made, for Path of Exile, which is why I stopped playing that game years ago. And yet even I will admit that this particular way of handling stash tabs is quite player-friendly. Now…GGG had a tendency in the past to continue to make new league-specific currencies and then try to sell you stash tabs specifically to organize them, which felt scummy. But the way the tabs were handled in general, when it came to migration and the Standard layout being copied into the newest league, very much felt like it respected both my time and money.
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Okay, good point, but it is a one-time effect. I have accumulated probably 200 remove only tabs in PoE. My usable tabs are filled to the brim for 9 years.
The reason LE does not copy your legacy layout is that they want stash tabs to be zero for all new cycle characters, creating an even playing ground. The complete newbie starts out like the veteran - with nothing. I just hope that one can save the stash configuration like a loot filter to apply it later, especially with their new priority stash system (which I haven’t checked out yet).
The vast difference between LE and PoE is money. LE uses ingame currency, PoE real-world money.
And you don’t pay for them with real money in LE, Just a small thing.
Enough said, they are not full functional storage, hence simply ‘nah’.
Yes, and it’s a really dumb idea, baffling even.
It’s one of the few things which make me facepalm about EHG.
You always have the same amount of tabs in a league as you have in Standard.
In LE you can have the minimum tab amount in Legacy and 200 remove only tabs.
That’s quite the difference.
At least increase tab amount to the maximum amount you’ve had anywhere, that’s the minimum to be expected.
No need for gold return or anything of the sort, just provide the baseline function.
It’s not dumb, it’s based on reason and true. Not everything that does not align with your preferences is dumb.
I just don’t think it is a good enough reason to cause friction, so I am supporting a gold refund.
That’s a solution that I made elsewhere in the forum, yes. If you had more tabs in the cycle than legacy, expand the legacy storage to the number of tabs in the cycle. You still need the remove-only tabs, though, so items don’t get lost.
First of all… the reasoning to do ‘nothing’ because of that is utterly dumb, won’t move from that aspect there, simply because it’s non-expected and also necessitates ‘some’ solution.
Which as you said… the ‘stock up’ on tab amount in Legacy would suffice.
As well as the ability to copy the Layout.
No need for the gold reimbursement, would be the superior option as all tabs are ‘non functional’ after all, just a placeholder… but the resources were used, so nothing gets lost.
That’s the state simply, you don’t get twice the value, you used the resources and afterwards they have no function anymore when the Cycle ends, that’s not conversation of value, goes against the principle.
And yet they function well as storage for your old stuff.
And if you were paying real money for them it would be different.
I kinda don’t disagree with that, but I get the devs’ viewpoint on it (though I don’t entirely agree with it).
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That is because many players that played 1.0 already had a bunch of tabs in legacy from playing EA.
Also because in PoE your stash tabs are kinda fixed, at least until you buy a new one). You can play for 5 years and they don’t change.
In LE the stash tabs you get in a cycle depend on how many you decide to buy in that cycle. So on cycle 1 you can buy 10 tabs, on cycle 2 50 and on cycle 3 only 1. How do you solve that using PoE’s system then?
The reasoning to do nothing is probably the same one as the reasoning to have gold, resources and faction progress behind a merge button. Because the amount of players that migrate from cycle to legacy is very small and they’re trying to save performance.
And for the small portion that does migrate, this is a one time thing. Once you do buy legacy tabs, it’s done.
I personally also think that you should get at least how many you had in cycle, but I can also get why they didn’t actually do anything with that.
My opinion is that EHG, intentionally or not, is choosing to be stingy about something you buy with in-game currency. So, from a business perspective, EHG is pissing of a part of their player base based upon something of ephemeral value.
They could just move the stash tab to legacy and be done with it. If you are full in legacy, it becomes remove-only. What is ‘lost’ by EHG in this scenario? What is lost by other players? I cannot honestly think of a single thing.
This, again in my opinion, is just one of many indicators that, someone, in EHG is really obsessive about ‘realism’, to the detriment of their relationship with players. It’s needleless and foolishly punitive and the only reason I can think why is because they don’t want legacy players getting ‘free’ value at the end of a cycle. It’s baffling, from a business perspective.
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What is lost is that players that don’t like cycles and don’t want to play cycles feel like they have to play them so they can get stash tabs cheaper.
You might as well ask what does EHG lose if they already give us 200 tabs from the start.
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Maybe from their point of view, part of their player base is being unreasonably demanding about something with ephemeral value?
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