LE trading is dead to me

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sarcasm
/ˈsɑːkaz(ə)m/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

In this case, just to mock.

Actually, LE’s system is done to prevent the toxic market of PoE like sniping, price fixing and, yes, RMT. No one is going to buy full gear with real money when they then have to play a few hours with whoever is selling. And no one is going to make a career out of selling items for RMT when they have to do the same. You can’t even bot it.

99% of players in PoE don’t exploit the system to get rich. But the 1% that do make it toxic. If you make a system that’s exploitable, it will be exploited.

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Oh I know that’s the plan, but I see from space how RMTs will get round it.

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I’d pick a system that 1% of people exploit over one that is not fit for purpose.

I have nothing but positive experiences from trading in PoE over thousands of hours and it is the reason the game retained so many players for so long imo.

It has long been speculated that the RMTs and all that “toxic” stuff mentioned is actually what has kept PoE running for so long and kept it so popular. I wont go into how that works or why, you can goggle it.

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PoE is free. Where do you think the 1% of players live in the world to RMT? they live in poor 3rd world countries where they cant even afford proper heating and food

The people who actually RMT are probably cashed up westerners who also drop thousands of dollars on MTX to keep the game running… I used to hate RMT with a passion then I started actually thinking about it and stopped caring when realsing the average PoE player probably benefits from RMTers and currency bots

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I also assumed from your post that you didn’t realise how trading in PoE worked. Just saying.

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If you make a system that is not fit for purpose, players will leave.

I am going to repeat my no 2 need for a trading system once more with feeling…

The above is the absolute backbone of any ARPG imo. Without this, there is no long term future in the game. At least for me.

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That’s why there are other games out there, so people can choose which they like best.
And LE’s system is fit for the purpose. Not for the purpose PoE has, where many players will spend the whole league just playing the market and barely playing. But the purpose LE has, which is to make you play the game and simply get tools to get some gear. Nothing else. The point of LE trade isn’t to make you rich. It’s just to help you finish your build.

Of course it has. Anyone that has played PoE for some time can see that GGG is actively involved in this and are directly profitting from it.

How is that a justification? RMTs are against the ToS. And are also against everything EHG has been trying to do with LE. Where they come from and how much money they or the buyers have has nothing to do with it.
You can also justify P2W, but the fact is that EHG is against it and their game won’t have it.

Again, LE trade is fit for the purpose EHG has proposed to do. It just isn’t fit for the purpose of PoE players. Yes, some players will leave because they prefer to play the market. Clearly LE isn’t the game for them. Not every game has to satisfy every player. Dark Souls is the proof of that.

Yes, I like doing that as well. But it is not the backbone of ANY ARPG. If you look at D3/D4, you can’t do that, for example. D3 never had a market to speak of (after the huge flop that was the auction house) and D4 also didn’t, at least initially. I don’t think it’s changed in the last few months.
Torchlight Infinite also doesn’t let you give away items. You have to go through the auction house as well.

If you want to give away items in LE, you can simply farm favor and sell stuff for 1g.

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EHG never claimed nor planned to entirely prevent RMT. That would be a fool’s errand. (they literally stated it that way).

However they are still aiming to make it as hard and unlucrative as possible while simultaneously trying to keep the impact on legit players as low as possible.

But regardless of what they will do and try there will always be something that some people don’t like about the system.

There is no perfect system.

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:100:

I’ve said this elsewhere but I’ll repeat in support - I am glad that EHG has created a trading system that actively discourages people who want to play Trade: The Game instead of playing Last Epoch.

If you create any system, some players will always leave over it. That’s how personal preference works. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. Just because it’s not fit for your purposes does not mean it’s not fit for everyone’s purposes. It suits my purposes just fine. So you leave, I stay. We’ve cancelled each other out. Checkmate.

Freely giving away items to anyone who wants them is absolutely not “the backbone of any ARPG”. The level of altruism you’re claiming to have is a vanishingly small minority of players and it absolutely does not make or break a game’s popularity. And TBH, if not being able to throw items into the streets like a digital Robin Hood is what makes you leave a game, I don’t think altruism was really the motive to begin with.

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#1 & 2. Not everyone is altruistic.

One of the things I loved most about Sacred 1 & 2’s multiplayer was that people would drop into a server & just dump a load of good gear on the MP starting island. But that was around 20 years ago & mp isn’t often as nice now as it was then.

He was being sarcastic.

Yup, the crafting mats & skill gems are very good. Trading, however, sucks balls unless you’re towards the top end of the market/knowledge base.

And I have mixed experiences, some are positive, lots are negative. I’m glad you’ve had mainly the positive but that doesn’t mean that that’s how everyone experiences it, just like not everyone’s experience will be like mine.

If a thing can be exploited for gain (be that IRL or in-game), it will be, but EHG are trying to innovate & do something different that gives people trading without fucking over the non-traders & attempts to curb RMT (in the same way that you put a door & a lock on your house to try & stop burglary, knowing full well that a determined bad actor will be able to do what they want if they want to badly enough).

It’ll be one of the reasons, yes, that & crafting & the skill gem system. Personally I think those are “the” reason why it’s grown for so long, so clearly I’m right!

Yeah, bots make trade easier 'cause they actually respond…

It’s also the backbone of RMT. Maybe scamming as well, but the backbone of that is probably douchbaggery.

Only if they ban someone who has MTX that then has to be bought again, surely? Or who has a point balance (the cash for which could then be pushed directly to the P&L instead of languishing on the balance sheet until it gets used).

And I think that is going to be part of the problem. People will have certain expectations of how trade will work ('cause they’ll refuse to read anything) & when the find that reality isn’t what they assumed it was, they’ll get pissed off. Some of them will be pissed off enough to leave, some to vent here, or discord or somewhere else & some will just accept it & change their expectations.

It used to be relatively common in Sacred 1 & 2. Which was probably a vanishingly small minority of players, to be fair… :frowning:

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It was also the norm in D2 and still is. Both on LoD (which plenty of people still play), in D2R and even in some of the mods like PD2. Last year I played all 3 for a few months and it still happens.
However, actually trading something in D2 (whichever version) was a pain and there were a lot of scammers.

Also, you can still be altruistic with this system. Just sell stuff for 1g. In fact, it might even be a good tactic to gain ranks, since you gain reputation from completing sales.

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I think a lot of people will play trade, and we’ll see how it goes. They’ve said they want to balance it so if trade is completely dead then I’m sure they’ll do a pass on it to bring it up to par.

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Ah yes…Caveat emptor. Absolutely agree. As long as the item description is accurate and complete, and there is no way for the seller to pull a bait & switch on the buyer, then the seller should not be penalized because the buyer made an impulse purchase and didn’t do their homework. This is not Walmart afterall.

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To be technical about this, spending favor will increase your reputation in a faction.

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I may be wrong about this, but I seem to recall that you need favor to place something on the market, but you only get the rank increase when someone buys it.

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That is what the trading breakdown post describes yes. Just wanted to make sure it was clear that it was the expending of favor that triggered an increase in reputation. As favor costs could be altered in the future, so the amount of reputation you gain per sale fluctuates on that and not on gold value or number of sales.

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Yes, but you could spend favor to place something for sale and never get a reputation increase if no one ever buys it.
That’s why I was saying that, if you could resell items, you could just sell back and forth with a friend to gain reputation, as long as you had enough favor to spend.

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This could still be done tbf. Post a trash item on the market, have a friend buy it. Have them throw up a random trash item, you buy it. Back and forth until level 10. Takes but mere seconds to find a bunch of trashy white items on the ground in a mono.

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Yes, that is a fair point.

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“Friends” will be optional. The bots will just do this amongst themselves.

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