LE trading is dead to me

I understand the approach LE is taking with this, but it’s overcomplicated and really negates any sort of real trading economy.

If people don’t care for trading, you have SSF. Works in other games, half your population is happy.

For people like myself who like or even love trading… let them trade! I understand the bots and RMT stuff, but that’s part of the world we’re in. Remove the one time trade constraint, it’s anti trading. Keeping things reigned in with favor requirements to trade, is more then enough. Favor costs can easilly be throttled by the devs to tweek the trading economy as seen fit.

Either way, with trading how it’s proposed to be, LE has gone from a game to be my main, to one I’ll probably play for a couple weeks the start of a new season. Still fun to play, but the trading is a dissapointment for sure and ruins the games longevity to me.

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Your argument literally makes no sense. The trading system isn’t complicated at all. You literally buy and sell stuff and rank up to buy and sell more. Favor is earned by just playing the game, which you will be doing anyway. This system is literally adding in trading while also allowing players to do SSF evenly. The whole one time trade constraint will most likely be good for the market and will stop players from trying to abuse it like they do in every other game (i.e., people that buy everything of a certain type and double/triple the market value). Out of all of the systems in all of the ARPGs like this this is by far the best system that balances what everyone wants from their gameplay, and limiting the RMT without really hurting the players. If you are mad that you can’t abuse the market when it comes to trading, then honestly this isn’t the game/community for you.

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This is sorta the idea.

The game orginally had a weird extra limited form of trading planned, which was the baazar, you would walk in, they would present X random items, and you bought them or didnt and it would change after some gameplay time or something. This was what their kickstarter/early talks were suggesting. As time went on, this idea was scrapped due to poor feedback.

What we have now is the best they can do to allow players the benefit of searching up items, which allowing full on trade.

Full trade was never on the table imo, because the devs have stated pretty clearly it goes against their ideology. You should be finding loot, for merchants guild you find loot to sell to buy new loot that you want. If you can resell items, you can buy items, corner a market, and create gold/loot without needing to be spending that time killing monsters. if they crank the favor costs to heavily discourage flipping, suddenly the every man who is playing casually is eating the shit end of the stick to protect an economy simulation.

Tbh, if you want to have items change hand multiple times, then you are most likely not the target audience.

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this is exactly what he is implying

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I think there is no need to put OP down. And what he is requesting for is not entirely unreasonable - he is looking for a D2/POE style of trade, probably because he played those games and enjoyed trading/the economy in those games, and I think his response is a perfectly reasonable one given the difference between MG trading in LE and how D2/POE trade functions.

Again, I’ll say I think it is premature whether to praise or to be disappointed by how trade functions in LE. Let’s take a look at whether MG is indeed fulfilling trade goals at 1.0 and we would all be on more solid grounds to comment.

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But raising the favor cost will make make everyone’s experience worse.

I would rather prefer a convenient trade with unmanipulated prices, without scam, bots and RMT, than being able to resell items. It can be fun, but the other benefits outweigh it, you just can’t have everything.

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Personally, I’m kinda excited for LE trade. PoE trade (and D2 as well) is quite toxic. Lots of sniping and scamming going around, lots of unhappy players that get conned into selling expensive gear for cheap, RMT trades, etc.
I expect you’re only happy with that system if you’re profiting from it.
LE’s system seems much cleaner and outright eliminates almost all of the toxic problems in those games, namely sniping, price fixing and RMTs.

Mostly, what LE’s trade system offers isn’t so much a way to get rich but a convenient way of getting gear. Nothing more and nothing less. Unlike in PoE, where quite a few players spend a full season just trading and barely anything else, in LE you’ll be playing the game and using trade as a way to boost your gear, rather than it being the whole objective.

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Ive had this game for nearly 5 years now? Its the same aspect to me but different things, Theres always something grating about builds and the fact there isnt really a fleshed out end game due to endless scaling, you never feel you did anything as theres always another Orobyss 1 corruption higher or has more mods to beat…the endless treadmill.

Then theres the balancing issues that simply bore me now: Cant sustain infinite mana with investment, cant skip cooldowns via certain ways, cant respec your class. Permanent skills in every build: Dread Shade for Necro, Death Seal for Lich. You always have to spend around 25 pts on a Primalist to get the Boar passive regardless - you cannot avoid it as its too much DR

The issue if you break it down is the game is FULL of restrictions -

One side of LE gives you all this stuff to play with, then another side repeatedly restricts you with basically everything. Its like 2 people made the game and one person has all these ideas while the other just nerfs them constantly, but on top of that game breaking bugs still exist

I am definitely going to play 1.0 but probably not on release since the devs are releasing the game on a Thursday I think at 5am when I will be in bed and have work in 3 hours. Ill play maybe on the following weekend but best to avoid the login bugs for a few days plus the release time is hugely insulting for me so im gonna boycott for a week

The simple fact is LE is NOT the game for me long term ever because I simply do not have the same fun as other games because of all the restrictions, then they bring in trading, the fact you cant resell items is wrong

I accidentally spent a vast amount of currency on Torchlight buying the wrong support Aura gem, lucky I was able to re-sell it and only lose a bit from tax. If that was LE I would of spent maybe 100million gold on a defunct item that doesnt even work for me. My fault yes but theres no room for error in EHGs trade world

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I completely agree with your post, Arcnail’s feelings are fine and expressed in a reasonable, balanced way.

However, it is not putting him down to inform him that LE was never meant to be a game where you can focus on playing the market.
And I think it is a good thing for the general gaming landscape, that similar games still retain some specificities instead of just being clones.
LE is already taking a lot of things from PoE (probably too many), I find nice and refreshing that, at least on the economy front, they are choosing a different approach. Gives people with different tastes more options to choose from.
I don’t think one is “better” than the other, it is just different, and difference is good. In my opinion.

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I disagree on most points but others have made the rebuttals well so I won’t rehas everything.

Which breed creativity.

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Totally agree! I’ve always despised those who ‘play the AH’ and bemoaned that fact that items were re-listable, this to my knowledge is the first time a developer has propsed measures to prevent what you RIGHTLY call ‘trading abuse’ which destroys games’ economies.

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Some expected counter thoughts of course, and that’s cool. I’m not ‘mad’ as one person thought I might be, just bummed out a bit. I said I was still playing, it’s a fun game!

That all being said, not going to beat a dead horse here, I would rather the ‘trading’ faction was more OG D2, PoE etc. It’s not, accepted.

However, it now draws a clear line for me, and I’m sure others on what faction you’re going to pick. Why would I or anyone really go the ‘trading’ route as a traditional trader with it’s limiting framework? Makes way more sense to use my time buffing my loot finding, which is 95% of the game.

Looking into my crystal ball, I see a fairly dead Bazaar to be honest. This in turn would have traders switch out into the loot finding faction, making the Bazaar faction even worse.

Time will tell I suppose… I’ll revisit this post in a couple months after release, see how on or off the mark I was. Peace.

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It really depends on how it’s balanced. CoF will still have RNG. It has tools to make RNG easier, but it’s still RNG. You might not find what you want.

Trade, however, let’s you target specifically the thing you need. Are you searching for a health/health idol? As long as you have the rank and currency you can simply start a new character, buy it and be done with it. Likewise for other pieces of gear. So it can be much faster to get what you want.

What you won’t do is use trade to get mirror-equivalent currency on the first week by sniping and flipping items.

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Exactly, nobody has a clue how things will work in 1.0 & our predictions probably say more about our own biases/preferences than what’s likely to happen. Maybe it will be as you say, maybe it won’t. :person_shrugging:t3:

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Yes, but as another has said, if there’s insufficient numbers of people putting stuff up for sale, y’ain’t going to find what you want, regardless of how “powerful” trading has the potential to be.

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That’s certainly true. I was just stating a reason why people might still decide to choose trade even though they can’t work the market to fund high-tier endgame characters in the first few days.

Certainly that the players that go to PoE and snipe/con/market fix their way into absurd amounts of currency in the first week won’t like LE trade. And the SSF crowd will naturally gravitate to CoF. But there are still lots of players that can reasonably choose trade as their faction.
For example, the crafters. There are people in PoE that like creating end-game items to sell.
There are also those that buy all gear for their next build before even creating the character. Those will likely use trade as well.

As you said, we have to wait for 1.0 (and maybe even further into the 2nd cycle) to see how it will pan out.

And let’s not forget that you aren’t actually locked into one or the other. You can switch between them freely.

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Going to assume these are your initial ‘impressions?’ Especially since Factions don’t come out until 2/21? So, of course, you’ll give it a fair shake when it does come out to see how it actually works rather than just in principal? I watched the trailer for the D&D movie when it came out. Thought I was going to hate it. Went and saw it anyway, kicking and screaming, and it actually turned out for me to be one of the more pleasant surprises in films in the last 5 or so years. Perfect? No, but I thought it was a heck of a lot more fun than most popcorn movies currently.

Factions, trades, CoF. Any or all of these might provide you with this same surprise, hopefully.

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Well said and i agree. Was going to comment something along these lines.

U said better than what i had planned.

For me i like what EHG is wanting from trading in LE

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No, it isn’t. It’s anti-market manipulation and anti-Trade Lords, and I’m 100% on board with both. The use case for reselling items is almost exclusively flipping them, which is scummy and done only by the kind of player that makes trade worse for everybody who isn’t spending most of their time playing the market.

I think this is a really silly and hyperbolic perspective. The ability to use trading to acquire specific desired items - and convert valuable but undesired items into them - is advantageous and appealing even if you can’t do it completely unfettered. I, for one, would flat out not play at all if they weren’t going to have trading, and I’m very happy to see that they have restrictions that prevent people from playing Trade: The Game instead of, you know, Last Epoch, the actual game.

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Bro, you still can play solo.
I don’t understand your point.