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LE noob mechanics thread

I’m thankful this game isn’t as complicated as PoE but it’s still sorta complicated. Have a few questions maybe someone can answer and maybe others can ask similar questions for other mechanics.

Here are a couple I have atm:

-health on melee hit vs health on kill. My assumption is that the health on hit is clearly better but maybe I’m not understanding something on how these work? The health gained seems similar but I would imagine you get the health on hit more often so is better but not sure.

-what is the effective difference (if any) between say “increased physical damage” and “increased damage while channeling”? I mean there is an obvious difference of the channeling part but if you compare these effects while channeling a melee attack like warpath are they essentially the same?

-monolith objectives. I have only just gotten my first character to the end of story content. I ran through the monolith once but wasn’t really clear wtf was happening. I guess there was some objective to destroy which I found immediately. Is it worthwhile to clear the map for shards, gold XP etc… or is it a waste of time and best to just complete the objective and leave?

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I also would say that generally Helath On Hit is better.
But there were a few characters i played that were quite tanky, but lacked sustain.
Usually the incoming damage from loads of smaller mobs is bigger than from single big mobs (with the exceptions of telegraph attacks)

Sothere were some chars were i used health on kill and ward on kill for sustain.

One example here would be a hybrid sorcerer, that does not focus on a specific damage type. Getting leech is very hard as sorcerer since he only has 3 leech nodes all specific for a certain element.
So i was reliant on idols and gear. The health on kill helped my sustain in Echeos tremendously.

So i would’t say health on kill is bad, but it’s way more situational.

Most affixes that are more specific have higher values, example single damage type affixes and conditional affixes that depend on doing somethign specific (like channeling).

But there are also very generic affixes like melee damage.

There are also very very specific affixes which have very high numeric values, like for example elemental damage over time.

At the end it depends on the build you are using, but for example %increased physical damage and %increased damage over time usually have the same value.

If you play a build that deals bleed as main dmg, it does not matter thant much what you take, but as soon as you maybe bring in some secondary poison or ignite, having damage over time instead of damage type specific affixes might be better.

The amount of mobs you kill within an echo does increase the loot from the chest at the end of the echo (in the transition area between the echoes).
Is it worth?
Generally speaking i would say yes, but not right away.
The loot in the first 5-10 echoes is not that good, but once you start going into the 15,20,25+ echo range it most definitely is worth it.

But it also depends what you want to achieve.
If you solely want to get quickly through the timelines for boss uniques or blessings it might be not worth for you.

But at some point, when you really want to farm gear it is worth.

High echo MoF is by far the best way to farm gear.

But while clearing alot of mobs is worth it, i would say backtracking or killing mobs in every corner is not worth it.
Just kill all mobs that you come across without major detours.

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Thanks for the reply. I don’t think I made myself clear enough on point 2. I was just wondering if the damage calculation for those 2 effects were the same if you remove the condition of channeling.

So for example if I have one weapon with 20% increased damage while channeling and an identical weapon but with 20% increased physical damage and I meet the condition of channeling are they doing the same amount of damage or is there some more complex math going on that isn’t apparent? I guess I could add in there 20% increased melee damage as another comparison (if assuming I’m channeling and using melee weapons).

As for the monolith…what chest? lmao. There was a chest? I completed the objective and it said to use my portal? I cleared the map and left and didn’t get a chest? Hmmm…

No, there is not deeper complex math involved.
All % increases are additive and just get smashed together into one big increase.

When you finish an echo and get through the portal, you are in that “Transition” Area called “Echo Of A World”. The Area where you can choose the next modifiers for the next echo.

On the right side there is a chest. That chest does scale with the amount of killed monsters in the last echo.

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I don’t recall ending up there after taking the portal. I think I went into the end of time area but forget. Maybe I missed it. Oh well.

Being pedantic, but this would also assume all the damage you’re doing is physical.

If you haven’t already seen it, you might find the game guide (bound to g by default) of interest.

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After every single completed echo, you will get to that transition area.

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Yes of course, but i think he already showed in his first post, that is understand the conditional nature of all these affixes individually.

He just asked if there is a deeper more complex system behind. Which it isn’t.

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Yeah, the only thing that may be somewhat unintuitive (depending on previous experience) is that not all melee in this game is physical damage - probably a given for the OP, but you never know who may stumble upon this thread in the future :slight_smile:

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Agreed, but i would rather say that there are physical spells is even more unintuitive :stuck_out_tongue:

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OK, so in the vein of the damage discussion please explain this:

I have 2 relics:
relic 1: 37% increased damage while channeling and 20% increased crit strike chance
relic 2: 26% increased physical damage

Based on what you guys are saying relic 1 should be more damage just with the damaging part and not even including any crit calculations. However, when I equip relic 1 my basic attack DPS shows 1157 and with relic 2 it shows 1203? That seems backwards to me. Is the basic attack DPS number on the damage stats sheet not a reliable way to compare items or any idea what is going on?

If you hover over ‘Basic Attack DPS’ it tells you that it’s the dps when repeatedly using your basic attack. Your basic attack isn’t channelled, therefore it doesn’t take into account ‘damage while channelling’ from the relic. In fact, I’d argue that this particular number is rather useless for most people, and more confusing that informative.

To better test, you could use the DPS tooltip from a skill you’re channelling, here’s an example of a flurry tooltip while not channelling https://i.imgur.com/NfiSieY.png vs while channelling https://i.imgur.com/lL3VuIJ.png

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Just to add on what @Turinqui said.

Also crit get’s calcualted into the dps formula.

Basic Attack DPS is really a stat that is not very usefull overall, i would rather use tooltip dps from a specific skill if you want to compare different items.

If you want to compare a phy dmg vs a channel affix you need to channel whiel comparing dps numbers (for example activeate and hold warpath and see what the Tooltips dps is saying).

Raw dmg, crit, ailments etc get all calculated into the tooltip dps.

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OK that makes sense. I didn’t even realize it was referring to that basic attack. I think I only used that once when I was level 1. Do people actually use the basic attack? o.O

I just compared my warpath tooltip dps and WOW…I didn’t even know you could do that. 4k dps not channeling and 10.5 dps while channeling. Quite a difference.

relic 1 DPS while channeling: 10,950
relic 2 DPS while channeling: 10,388

That makes much more sense. Thanks for all the info that was very helpful. Also thanks for the suggestion of using “G” for game info. I had no idea that existed.

Not really.

The only exception might be swipe, with the the cooldown nodes that uses basic attacks if you press swipe while it has cooldown.

Not a primalist expert though, dunno if that node is popular.

I am trying to suggest at least once a week, that the devs should emphasize the Game Guide more.

We need some annoying turoial pop-ups that you can’t dismiss instantly telling you there is a game guide^^

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If you had selected Health on Hit, it would have been the same or even better, no? If you kill a whole pack, you get a whole lot of life, but maybe you get too many and some is wasted. But if you get on Hit, you have a permanent flow of life incoming.
I’m not sure Health on Kill would be so more efficient. Or do I miss something?

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If it was generic ‘health on hit’, however that’s not a common stat, the affix is ‘Health On Melee Hit’ which wouldn’t be useful if you were casting spells :stuck_out_tongue:

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Exactly what @Turinqui said.

Also I played with Meteor on that particular build so health on hit would not been that effective.

Just to clarify.

I think any form of health on hit is incredibly powerful.
That’s the reason it’s so rare.

I just wanted to point out that health on kill, while more situational, still has some use cases.

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@Turinqui @Heavy Yes, true, I forgot it was on melee hit. I often used “health on hit” idols when leveling, so I tend to forget the affix is on melee hit. Thanks! :slight_smile:

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That is an important distinction about the melee hit. I had not originally even considered that.