You can’t trade crafting materials.
You can trade rares in D4 and rares can potentially be very powerful. You can trade some of the most powerful items in D4.
That’s not what that means. It is meant as split them up physically. Nobody cares about how split the community is on opinions. Everyone has one and nobody is the same.
2 Likes
I’ll throw my opinion into the pile:
I want trading mostly because the rarer item types in Last Epoch have been designed to be more than just raw stats, though often they are unique sources of certain stats/stat values as well. They often have unique functionality and can also enable build defining effects or synergies. As a result, the game is ‘balanced’ with these items in consideration. The ultimate goal of the genre is to maximise efficiency for your character build and use that to gather more loot either for themselves or your other characters/builds. Said build is often picked because it’s based around a playstyle or theme you find fun or engaging.
This leads to circumstances where an advertised option is not just worse but not really available or functional until you both get to a certain level and have certain items. The level represents a time investment and the character planning aspect; it’s the bit you have control of. Unique items are the aspect you have no real control over outwith some boss specific drops being target farm-able and tilting the drop-rates slightly via the monolith web.
This means that I, as a player, have two options if I do not get lucky with RNG during the leveling process:
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Play a watered down/semi functional version of the character/build I want to be playing until RNG lets me get the unique item(s) I need.
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Play a different character/build not (as) reliant on unique items that can farm more efficiently until I get the parts for the build I do want to play.
Both of these options could potentially go on for in excess of a thousand hours or never happen, all based on luck. Trading would allow me to effectively put a rough target down and work towards it. That target being the trade value of the item I want and progress being the steady accumulation of currency. These option also boil down to generally being less fun and not getting to do what I wanted to within the game.
Now I want to propose a stupid system to make trading limited, minimise the devaluing of gold and do this without making it near useless for many people like party only trading:
It is a simple auction house style trading system run via NPCs. No player to player interaction required. You list an item with a buy now price and/or a bid starting amount. All items stay on the auction house for the same set length of time until sold or the listing expires and you can’t take an item down.
You can only list unmodified items. As soon as an item is crafted, turned into a legendary or otherwise changed it cannot be listed. No buying best in slot gear. The focus is mostly getting people access to unique item effects and also letting them buy/sell good bases.
When you list an item you must pay a gold fee. This gold fee is based on the buy now or current highest bid of your existing listings, whichever is higher on an item by item basis. Lets call that X% of the current listings value. Notice that this means if you find one item and want to put it up there is no fee to pay but as soon as you are listing 20 high value items you’re potentially bleeding gold rather than earning it. This hopefully means people do not want to spam the auction house with every item and also keep prices lower. This also encourages bidding only auctions rather than instant buy/sell for players looking to sell multiple items.
When an items sells the seller gets 100-Y% of the gold. This creates a scenario alongside the above where listing loads of items or buying up items to jack up the price is very difficult to profit from on larger scales.
Running an example, we’ll take X as 5 and Y as 50 as what I expect are high values:
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Dave has 50K gold. He finds Item A and lists it as buy now for 100K. He has no other listings so pays nothing to list the item.
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Dave then finds Item B. Item A is still listed so listing Item B costs Dave 5K (5% of 100K) and he lists it for 100K with bids starting at 10K.
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Dave finds Item C. Item C is rare and worth a lot. Dave lists it at 500K buy now. Item A has not sold yet and bids on Item B are up to 60K but it has a 100K buy now price which will be sued instead for the listing fee. He pays 10K to list the item (5% of now 200K).
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Items A sells and doing a quick recount Dave was down 15K for listing items but sold an item for 100K which nets him 50K (50% of 100K). In total he is up to 85K with some items for sale.
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He find another of Item A but with much worse rolls on the variable bits. Looking at the auction house, the worse rolled versions are nearer 80K so he goes for that. This time listing the item would cost 30K (5% of 600K) and he’s down to making 10K ‘profit’ if it sells for 80K after the selling deductions. At this point he might be better off holding onto this one until at least Item C is no longer listed. He could try to list it for more but ‘poorer’ players without high value listings could undercut him easily and still profit so it likely wouldn’t sell.
That was a huge amount of text to basically say make trading a game wide gold sink (to encourage farming/playing the game to generate it) with heavy fees that hit the ‘rich’ harder (to reduce the efficiency of larger value/volume trading instead of playing the game) and only list unmodified items (to avoid people buying and selling perfect legendary items or best in slot, fully crafted gear).
Alongside this I can see value in allowing a degree of person to person trading with party or group members in a session. This allowing you to trade items that just dropped while playing together but without allowing you to just freely spread out items across accounts to game the auction fee system.
2 Likes
All 10 of them?
Probably language barrier thing, I meant to say that is why I think that is the case but whatever. You do you.
not what I meant, that is in no way the same as “I want to trade with both strangers and friends”
I agree
especially with this, as I imagine the positions on this are either: “I want the best trade ever” or “I dispise trade with a passion” and in the middle are few people, to such a point that trying to please everyone will please nobody
I realised something else, something which would heavily change what an acceptable drop rate is - the power of this games item filter.
Which would mean that for idols and also most gear, people will not even SEE items they do not want for their build - which would get in the way of the idea of trading non-uniques/non-exalted that do not fit the build. You would be unlikely to see idols or gear that fits the less common builds, and to lower drop rate of those things even further would become infuriating, As nobody would be selling them, they would be filtering them out.
And by most powerful you mean unmodified rares, elixirs and gems? What if they are still loot 2.0 and rain down like candy on Halloween? And what if by gem they mean only the raw ones you pick up and the most powerful level of gem can only be crafted and not dropped, so is therefor untradeable? Sounds a lot like a very limited trade system to me
Last Epoch will have a Bazaar system in which players will be able to anonymously buy and sell items from other players using the gold they’ve found on their adventures. We are designing this system very carefully to ensure that while the Bazaar can be a fantastic way to find certain items, it will never overshadow the rewards of engaging with the world yourself. Fear not, friends will be able to freely gift items between each other as long as they have been friends for a reasonable amount of time.
This is definitely restricted.
A fuller explanation of their proposed trade that was available to read during the kickstarter campaign is available here:
Of special importance in the above thread is this quote, which confirms their plan was always a form of restricted trade:
the “best” gear untradeable
Lastly, they made sure to say this (emphasis mine):
As a final caveat, we are still in Pre-Alpha and as part of that, plans like these could very possibly change if we discover dire flaws or other issues with the system
I mentioned all this in an earlier comment in this thread, but you must’ve missed it. Easy to miss with so many replies in just a week.
The rares. They are the legendary bases.
That’s not what that means. It is meant as split them up physically.
Yes it is what it means. Community is already split, playerbase won’t support this “item gifting” direction. You can leave the game as it is intend for 0.9 and we won’t play but we won’t accept it either we will spread negativity through the internet and the game will be killed. Nobody will win, neither who supports neither who disagrees.
Nobody cares about how split the community is on opinions.
“Nobody cares” that’s why the devs are willing to reverse the bad decision they did? Yeah, of course “nobody” just a lot of replies which dislike the item gifting system. You should wake up for the real world.
There are also a lot of replies that like the item gifting system. Did you miss them?
I agree and will likely be playing despite the severe bad taste left from D:!. If it is like D3 though the base drops for your class will be pretty plentiful , and what drops will need crafting on 80% + of them before they are useful. I think elixirs and gems will be the more high traffic items if they do not also have certain restrictions on them. However even with those caveats, the fact that blizzard has ledt those items even partially open to RMT means that D4 is defacto p2w, just like LE would be if EHG does not stick to restricted anonymized trade that locks out the possibility of RMT for direct item purchase. And for the logic challenged, no, RMT carrys and gifting are not the same as direct trade.
This is definitely restricted.
Cut the crap, I already sent print and the official kickstarter website link for veryfication and there isn’t anything about " trade restriction". I can paste again if you purposely ignored that just to try to be right:
print: https://imgur.com/SBlSJc1
website: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lastepoch/last-epoch
They will also ignore the new poll a reddit user put up that show preference for as it is now or with only a little less restiction on friend gifting. Which coorelates with the poll I put up but then deleted after a comment by EHG
Did you miss them?
I think darkdeal missed cause he said “nobody cares”. You know what “nobody” means? I hope you know cause “maths” we both know you are bad at it.
I did. I’m a backer, I’m familiar with the Kickstarter. Did you read the forum thread, posted by EHG, that was available during the Kickstarter? Please, tell me how that’s not restricted.
I linked you all the necessary information, I even quoted the Kickstarter and forum thread. The information’s there. You need to read all sources of information and not just the section that favors you.
Can’t see the words “restriction trade” on the official kickstarter website. Are you saying they were misleading their customers on purpose?
I don’t get it. Why are you ignoring all the information presented by EHG themselves during that time?
The same way I don’t get it the reason you are ignoring the fact on the official website used to collect money from bakers there is no information whatsoever about restrictions on trade.