Last Epoch’s Season 4 and Beyond: Expansion, Paradox Classes, and Roadmap

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424

You are wrong because people are already playing for a week and quitting and the point they quit at is when they hit empowered monoliths.

Consider that also this issue with the moving to empowered monos being the thing that is the most posted ever since early access and you couldn’t be any more wrong.

LE isn’t meant to be PoE, it isn’t meant to be super hard. It is meant to be firmly between PoE and D4 and at this moment in time moving from normal to empowered is hard enough that most people consider it a progression wall they can’t overcome and thus give up.

This is also the point I’ve made for years but I am FAR from being the only, most people who complain this is one of their first complaints and I quit after a week shortly after hitting empowered too. It just isn’t fun to not be able to push past that regardless of playing even one of the most overpowered builds in that season. Sure this may not be a problem for the good players but LE isn’t supposed to be made to please the good players, it’s meant to be made for the average player and guess what. Me and most average players still enjoys more success and fun with PoE which is a game meant for the hardcore players.

Simply making good quality MTX isn’t going to solve the issue. It is necessary but if people don’t play the game for a long time every season they have no incentive to even spend money.

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425

No, but what was suggested wasn’t balance, It was making an already easy game even easier. The incremental amounts of corruption to regular mono’s if a far better solution.

I agree, but it should be smoothed out during regular mono’s so that incremental amounts of corruption are added so that it’s a jump from 80 to 100 rather then 0 to 100.

426

That won’t help and we’ve discussed this before. The problem is not that it isn’t a gradual adjustment. The problem is that by the time people hit empowered their gear and lack of blessings isn’t capable of dealing with the content. If you start making content harder earlier, you are only moving that progression wall earlier because people are not magically going to be getting the gear and the grand blessings they need.

From my experience (and considering that most people quit after a week also when they move from normal to empowered monoliths their isn’t likely to be too different) it already starts getting hard in the last 2 stages of normal. There is already some level of struggle there with the gear we have, add corruption here and it’s over probably by stage 2 or 3.

The point here is that empowered is the absolute bare minimum the player needs to be at to farm. It’s the bare minimum for drops to be okish, all gear is available cause it’s level 100 and it’s also where you get grand blessings. With that in mind, if empowered is the absolute bare minimum to farm then what players have as soon as they get there must be enough to do it. Difficulty can be scaled as the player feels ready to increase it but the bare minimum level where they can farm and acquire what is needed for progression is number one priority alone with normalization of difficulty across mobs and bosses. After all, difficulty is infinitely scalable so if anyone finds any part of the game to be too easy, just increase the difficulty.

427

We’ve had this conversation before actually. There is no source for your claim that the average player quits at empowered monoliths’.

Why does Uber Abberoth exist then? I’d say it is the hardest boss out of any ARPG. if you ignore Uber then LE isn’t super hard, it’s a trivial game with a few minor speed bumps that could do with ironing out but aren’t really noticeable with a semi competent build.

I remember looking at your build and it had very little defence, it was either a bad buildguide you followed or you did not follow the guide properly but to call it the most OP build of the season when you have less than 2000EHP is just wrong.

Agree, they need consistent seasonal releases too,.

428

There are, I can’t remember which podcast they said it in but they said it. Personally I don’t care to waste hours looking for it but they said it and I even remember other streamers also talking about that specific thing they said. It was kinda of a big deal. That said if you prefer to believe in whatever you want rather than what I am saying, be my guest, I don’t feel motivated enough to waste many hours scouring the internet for it.

It shouldn’t, that is the point, Uber Abberoth and other very hard content is a controversial decision by EHG that many people have criticized because that is them following the PoE formula when they have always tried to position their game in between PoE and D4 for difficulty. It is the unfortunate consequence of following the wrong advice from the people who want LE to become PoE which it will never be therefore will compete for the exact same market and fail because they won’t be better on the same market. LE should stick to it’s guns which is the average player and in so doing will get everyone who is dissatisfied with both PoE and D4 which isn’t a small amount of people.

My build had more defense than most builds have. Could it have been better at that specific point? Sure but guess what isn’t a good build guide, one that tells you, just look around the tree for what you are lacking and make math to figure out what is your EHP and try to adjust. A good build guide is one that says, you are going after this gear specificaly and you are getting these nodes in this specific order.

Build guides HAVE to be easy to follow. The reason for failure is once again not my build, that was the best with maybe a couple small easy upgrades I didn’t thought of at the time but those small upgrades wouldn’t have made enough of a change and bear in mind, that is following one of the most overpowered build guides. What if it was only an A tier build? What if it was a B tier build? The problem would have been orders of magnitude worse.

Desirable but far from the big problem. PoE had plenty of bad seasons and guess what, they never lost nearly all players after 1 week. Worst case they had a 10% higher retention loss which is significant but not enough to kill the season. What needs consistency is the game itself. Everything should be smooth. Mobs should be about on pair with eachother. different abilities, slight different HP and damage but overall generally the same experience. Moving from normal to empowered shouldn’t feel like a jump in difficulty because the bare minimum for farming is empowered and ideally you want to farm in 300 corruption but at least 100 should be standard. No one should ever feel like there is a progression wall at 100 corruption and fact is, people are quitting after 1 week and I guarantee the majority of people are not done with content that fast, most people don’t even play fast enough or even play enough for that at all. Even if you don’t want to believe that empowered is when people quit, fact is, one week is only enough to do all content for the best players, not for the average player.

429

Most people I know who played LE, not many to be clear here maybe 25-30 ppl, quit when the reached normal monos. I was asked a lot of times “Erm this is it?” and all I could answer was “No it get’s harder when you play it again and then that’s it.”. So I can only speak from my experince. Only 2 players I know made it to emp monos and had a good time. Then again they don’t play LE anymore because they can’t be arsed to reach over 1k corruption again and again.

Le was never ment to have any payed content besides box price and MTX. I’m not suprised they are moving goal posts. maybe you’ve been arround when Mike said 300C is endgame, then 300C became a good working build then it became if someone reaches 4 digit corruption we messed up when it comes to balancing and now we are at a state without any informations or goals that are up to date. So in theory LE can become everything because I guess even the devs don’t know what they want anymore.

A lot of people made points about things over the years and EHG didn’t listen to it sadly. They changed some things out of the blue they deemed noteworthy like mastery respecc and WASD from the top of my head. Then again other things were requested far more then this and it looks to me like they pick what can be done rather easy instead of making changes that require to much work. I bet they have a lot of work to do already so this might be something they thought would help in the big picture.

At this point it isn’t anymore but I made this point for years… you know how it is. Only outstanding quality content that brings people back or new ones in will make LE another No Man’s Sky.

Ther can’t be balancing without a set in stone balancing goal. If they blance something today it’ll be outdated the next patch when they introduce even more power creep into an already easy game. As mentioned above, Mike once said 300C is endgame and look where we are now. We can’t even define balancing because we have only a starting point and no goal. We can’t say what is to little or to much damage because there are no goals. Without EHG aiming for a corruption goal of 1k for example and doing everything that classes end up arround 1k corruption ±meta shakeups we can’t talk balance.

They as in EHG?

If it didn’t they get even less content creator coverage. I don’t know why people watch watch and advocate stuff that is only for 1-3% of the playerbase. I often told they should add stuff that is engaging from level 10 to forever I’m sure I said this for years but I’m not completely sure.

Unfortunatly the EHG devs take feedback from a selcted few persons as it seems and while I appreciate feedback from someone like Raxxanterax for example who delivers his points in a good way I don’t care about a lot of points he makes because those never bother me because I lost enjoyment for the new season faster then I reach the stupid goals to do whatever stuff they added i nthe endgame.
All I can do about it is to tell EHG I’m not a fan of this and all my friends stopped playing LE and give the game bad reviews because they are dissapointed by the game. Heck I even exused myself for telling people about the game and convinced them to buy it because the EHG devs were awesome back in the day.

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Because they didn’t say it in any of the podcasts. The closest you get is talkative Tri saying “I feel like most players bounce at end game” There has never been a specific case of the devs saying that the average player quits at empowered monoliths.

If it was the case it wouldn’t take hours of time scouring the Internet to find evidence to confirm, it would be a Google search and it would be the top result.

Agree.

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/QJ5Xp1qA This is a link to your build, it has paper defence, and is not the same build as the judgement build that was popular in season 2. So when you say you played one of the most OP build of season 2, you actually didn’t.

Your build is F tier, you aren’t playing the S tier judgement paladin.

PoE just has so much content though. By comparison LE is quite sparse, people accomplish their goals on LE a lot faster because for the most part the game is too easy.

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431

This will happen to the people who think LE is like GD and it’s all about the campaign but I’d say those are probably still the minority as far as an ARPG community goes.

Still the problem is how quickly people are quitting without reaching anywhere in particular because they have a progression wall.

You are right that the Devs don’t know what they are doing or where the game is going, they are saying one thing and then doing another. I still say this is partly the fault of the minority who want this game to be PoE but it is in great part that they listen to these people. Even without extremely hard challenges there will still be coverage of the game and the more people play it more coverage it naturally will get. Unfortunately the devs don’t understand that content creators go after what is popular because that is what generates views.

I disagree. implementing WASD movement in any capacity that is working well is WAY harder than removing the difficulty spike because that is just slightly nerfing what is overtunned.

They simply don’t listen to what the majority of the community has been asking them for years and then go and implement something just because it was successful in another game while disregarding that without the game being fun to play a functionality is not going to save the game.

Yes. Can’t remember if it was Mike or Judd specifically who said it but it was one of the two.

As I said before and I think we are both in agreement. Content creators will play a game even if it’s easier than they would like so long as the game is popular because it generates a lot of views but blindly following them is one of the problems of many Developers, not just LE for that matter and ultimately, it’s not like they are necessarily wrong either. There should be games for all tastes including hardcore games but the fact is that the hardcore gamers, especially streamers will ruin games for average players just to please themselves and the result often is this, the game dies out because the Devs can’t understand what is good for their game.

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It wouldn’t necessarily be in the top of google search because it’s something said in the middle of one of the podcasts. Again I don’t care enough to waste my time searching for it. If you wish to believe it, do, if you don’t it doesn’t really bothers me either but it would be good if people understood properly the reasons why things are happening.

A non sentinel build will not have half of that defense. With that defense I could do normal monos and only feels a small chance of dying in tombs. With any non sentinel build at the same stage I feel like I can die the moment I pay a little less attention to the game even without being in a tomb and in fact in the level 90 monos I die every now and then, that should speak for itself and again, a good build will tell you to follow it, not having it try to list a million possible cases your might find yourself at any moment and how to change the build temporarily to fix it. A good build you follow what is the priority allocation for the points in the tree, you look for the gear with the affixes that are necessary and that is it. It has to be simple to follow because if it isn’t there isn’t any point in making that build guide as the people who can follow it don’t even need one to begin with.

Don’t move the goal post. I said, this is how it does being an S tier build. What if it was A or B tier which are supposedly very much viable but of course worse. How much more would the player struggle? It’s obvious the point I’m making is that we shouldn’t consider only S tier builds viable. That doesn’t means the worst things that exist should necessarily be viable, there needs to be a balance act here and we’re trying to be reasonable. At least I am.

PoE didn’t had people quit even when their content was, finish campaign now do maps with no extra content on them. That is the difference and in fact I could play PoE without any content other than that for a month no problem, assuming it was possible to gear up just doing that of course which back then it was.

433

Pinacle bosses are a genre thing right now. So bringing them in isn’t bad just as an example. The execution is rather… questionable.
The rather questionable execution across the board is most likely the biggest problem.

From my point of view there should be a celing that is opened up more and more with future conten but right now we need a number to balance arround. If not the game has nothing to build arround or any metrics if a build is good or not because anyone could argue 300C is endgame and everyone who is doing more is abusing broken builds and only rebuke sentinels are the real deal! We couldn’t say said preson is wrong because we can’t say we have lvl 120 content and that’s the hardest shit to deal with and the game is balanced to keep it hard.

I tested their implementation about WASD and it was not a fun time and most of the feedback got ignored. At least all the feedback I’ve seen.

At one point EHG advertised they wanted to make a game from gamers for gamers and they want to follow their vision. Their vision was worth almost 100 million dollars as it seems but not keeping their word or making a game their players want because a lot of stuff that was asked for was dropped.

Just wanted to know I can look for it myself but wasn’t shure if you talked about EHG. thx!

It’s a bit hard to say for the H&S genre. It needs a special kind of person who is doing the same over and over and over again while hoping for a different outcome. From the creators I watch from time to time I thinke those like LE but they look at it through a lense of a speedrunning sweatlord. LE has some nice functionality and skilltrees and boxes to check. Since the PoE 1 Skillmap we all know people are going hard when they see skilltrees no matter how good or bad they are… the more the better.

I guess some things speak for the creator lense but it’s delusional to make game for 300 players if you could do it for 30000. There needs to be aspirational content but more realistic one wouldn’t hurt. Adding items and bosses noone gets or engages with is lost development time. Such items or bosses could be introduced in story arcs and you could tell the players how awesome said weapons were and how epic the fights against said bosses have been… would be the same to most players.

EHG needs to get their stuff thought out and they need to set some goals to reach… not only for balancing. if they have a baseline improve it and deliver quality content. If there is quality content people will play the game and buy their stuff. If there is nothing to write home about… noone will write home about.

434

I see what you’re saying but you’re talking about something slightly different there - an ultimate target point for balance in the endgame, I was talking more about the difficulty gradient to a target point. Managing this sounds like it would be solved predominantly algorithmically in monos. It doesn’t really matter where ultimate balance is, like you say, that’s arbitrary and subject to change as the gear/skills/class universes change. The pathway to that balance point shouldn’t include jolting gear shifts, and that is as true in the campaign as it is in monos/empowered monos and beyond, whatever that might look like.

Having the objective of perceived balance throughout the game in it’s entirety should be a goal because a new “normal” player needs to have this consideration shown throughout the campaign, it doesn’t just apply to the ultimate endgame target. A new player’s experience the process should feel smooth and incremental rather than having any major spikes that may be perceived as insurmountable and cause them to quit. As such this doesn’t sound like this should be solved algorithmically, but rather it should be resolved by fine-tuning the base values within the encounters themselves, and it’s not like they’re not doing this - for example, diamond matrons are less scary now, and Lagon is WAY less scary than he was in 1.0 - but the whole thing is a work in progress.

435

I simply want a baseline. An example.

800C is the celinig they aim for to balance arround. I’m okay if some builds that are mega stronk reach 1k or if there are some builds that underperform that only reach 600. We need a goal but how we approach this goal is a secondary problem for me. If it is linear or a complete mess isn’t that important to me. What is important to me is seeing EHG setting a goal and working for it so things can be added that are progressively harder in future expensions while they can add items or more skillpoints or whatnot to reach the harder content.

Without a baseline no balance can ever be achived. Sadly this is an ongoing issue for years by now.

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436

They already had these in the form of dungeon bosses and the boss fight that increases corruption. Technically any timeline boss is pinnacle if you consider corruption is infinite scaling. You didn’t need specific pinnacle bosses though I agree that they do questionable execution all over.

While people have different ideas for this the over consensus seems to be 300 is the ideal farming spot and even bottom of the barrel builds should do this. 500 is a decent build, viable but not good. 800 is a good build that can kill uber abberoth. 1200+ are the S tier builds.

Problem is this is one of the general consensus people have but EHG itself has no such measures as you said.

And yet it still took far more work than solving the problems reported.

Yeah, when they actually still had a healthy doze of reality and were a small studio, then they started to think they could do direct competition with PoE and let temporary success go to their head even though everything was very clearly not well judging from the numbers.

Yes but first they need to ensure most people can even play that quality content because if they don’t fix their foundations, it will all come crumbling down and the building is already shaking.

437

They didn’t say it in any of the podcasts.

Not sure what you mean by this.

Objectively false. https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AKXrvjZQ here is a link to my Beastmaster I played this season, now I know it’s a level 100 character with fleshed out gear but do you think that at level 75 I had as little EHP and recovery as you did?

Again, not sure what you mean. The S tier build uses judgment to create multiple instances of concecrated ground to deal damage and heal the character. The build works by dumping all your mana and using vengeance to get damage resistance and generate mana.

Your F tier build uses judgement to create 1 instance of consecrated ground and uses it as an aura, doesn’t use any mana generators.

Just because both builds use Judgement, doesn’t mean they are the same build. The build you played is a different build to the popular one on maxroll.

Agree, and this is currently how LE is.

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438

Take a guess who told them exactly this for years right now? Even far ahead of the release? Then take a second guess why it should be different now? The foundation is flawed and they don’t give a rats behind about it and work with mostly bandaid fixes to keep the card house from faltering.

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439

OK but does this apply in the campaign as a new player is figuring out how to play and build their character? No. That’s what I was talking about as a priority because this is the experience that everyone is going to have if they’re going to become a valuable customer to EHG. Too many players aren’t even making it to empowered monos, even less to 800C. The new playerbase needs to be looked after because apparently they’re not making it to becoming a long term, committed player, willing to spend $ and support the game, which, frankly, I totally understand.

I get it that it would be nice if there was a baseline, that sounds sensible, and ultimately there SHOULD be an aim to balance the endgame to some point in empowered monos - but that can be done independently of ensuring that the campaign doesn’t contain any major obstacles to the new player even getting there. That’s why I think we’re talking about 2 different things, it’s just that they both fall under a broader “balance” term.

440

You’re completely right.

A company for a live-service game can focus on 2 potential goals, either/or suffices to sustain a playerbase which makes them at least struggle along, both are optimal at once.

You either focus on a smooth experience so it feels great to come back to as it’s just nice to replay.
Or you focus on a long-term end-game grind of some form which feels fulfilling by showing steady progress.

EHG sadly did neither. The campaign is a bit of a mess… and the end-game at the top-end absolutely grinds to a halt with at times hours where you don’t even get a try for a craft. So both feel unfillfilling.

That definitely needs to change.

That’s why people ‘run out of enthusiasm’… the moment to moment gameplay needs to feel rewarding. Not the big jackpot hits… but simply playing needs to make you feel at the end of the day that you’ve come a step further to your goal.
If you end with the same as you started (and not even got a try to progress) then the time feels simply wasted.

Which mostly is a issue of gradual increase of difficulty rather then of the distinct difficulty at that point.
It feels absolutely jarring to have the sudden step there. But if you smoothly increase it it feels fine.

Nobody complains about difficulty in for example Monster Hunter games… but the later enemies are compared to the beginning ones ridiculously hard, with a bigger difference then what difficulty increase comparably is in LE… it needs a much higher skill for the game there and still is not only wildly successful but people just don’t complain.

Why?

Because the game provides you with a really smooth and enjoyable progression curve. You’re always challenged at any fight… but they are all also clearly doable.

Well… the first half was :stuck_out_tongue:

But fair for the other part you mentioned, with you on that.

Umh… I’m not a great player… I’m ‘decent’ at best. If the gear and blessings are your issue you simply fucked up. It’s piss-easy and still designed for non-exalted gear at that stage even, got never changed.

The initial bosses at D4 are a lot harder then the LE difficulty jump to empowered. Also the jump from campaign to white maps (which is mid-game start basically… despite it being the endgame mechanic, just time-wise for total progression) is far far more grating in PoE.
If your argument would uphold then nigh nobody would get past the campaign in PoE as well, because there you actually have issues with gear to a massive degree comparatively.

But it’s not the case.

No matter the game smooth progression is the first and foremost aspect to be provided. Then you can adjust the difficulty. If it’s all over the place you cannot properly balance.
So even if you’re right first needs to be smoothness achieved.

Oh come on… that’s at the same difficulty as the campaign… actually less so if you got a middling grasp at how to design a build. If you’re blindly slapping together random crap then I agree… but that’s also not the intention.

First is factually wrong. All gear outside of boss-specific empowered drops and Aberroth gear is available at the level 90 monoliths already. They drop exalted items as well and all bases.

The only difference is grand blessings… and those become important for most builds at which are on the weaker side at around 150-200c.

We discussed this before, your build is just crap and it likely hasn’t changed.

Prolly IGN :joy:

When?
I’m an avid Twitch-stream watcher generally letting a random streamer running on the side and keeping my ears open whenever technical talks happen.

I have heard about this topic exactly ‘0’ times during my many years activity in the game.
I would enjoy sources for that to see if it half-way upholds at least. Youtube links, stream links, anything would be fine.

Uberroth is vastly past the difficulty of pinnacle bosses in even PoE.

It’s just a shitty designed boss.

Sorry to say this:
Your build was utter garbage.
To state it in absolutely clear terms.
Atrocious. Hurting the eyes. Facepalm-worthy. Irredeemable.

And you followed yours really shit.

It’s a form of reading comprehension, and you don’t have a high skill in that. It’s something which forms to a degree after engaging with the topic and it is a part inherent ability.
I don’t know which part of it is lacking for you… but one way or the other you screwed up there. And that’s why I’m ripping into you here because it was described in detail why and you’re now like a broken record ignoring that entirely.

You learned nothing from it.

Then you remember wrong.

The only ever statement was that the player drop-off rate is the highest from campaign to end-game and from end-game to empowered.

Which is natural. Same thing happening for PoE or TL:I actually. Whenever there is a ‘distinct step up’ people stop. It’s like a fulfilled journey and a new one beginning.

You built it so atrociously badly that they have more then you do.

My wraithlord char has paper defenses but is a offensive tank. Hence survives by enemies not existing for more then a few seconds.
My Jelkor Detonating Arrow char sucks defense-wise, it’s a glass-cannon, only leech-sustain and no proper defenses. It’s a really atrocious build in the way I made it. It still has more then your character does.

Please stop arguing about something you fucked up on so many levels it’s solely annoying by now to try and get it through your thick skull that it is your problem, not the game’s in that case.

You can see how much I rip into LE left, right and center… so maybe take a step back and think about why I’m defending the game here suddenly when I find fault at every nudge and corner otherwise.

It’s not moving the goal post… your guide is top-tier… your build is F-tier.

You just screwed up.

They had… loads and loads and loads.

To be exact 70% dropoff rate from campaign to maps during earlier leagues. Don’t know how the number is nowadays.

Sadly so, which makes the decision for a unfinished and so atrociously balanced game to ask for money in any extra form baffling.

441

Or you just didn’t saw it. Again, it’s fine I’m not going to look for it either so believe what you will.

That people are spending about a week to get to empowered monos and then quitting right after because they aren’t having a fun time for the reasons already mentioned.

They are at different points so it can’t be compared. Also if you are good enough you can do constant changes and adjustment to make it a bit better, the average player following a build won’t. A build must be easy to follow once again.

My build wasn’t the more popular mana dumping, it was in fact as you stated meant to work only by casting it once and burn everything around it as it moved and it was not the maxroll one I remember that much but it was still an S tier build that would do over 1K corruption no problem once it had all the gear. I specifically chose the build for good defenses and basically not needing to press many buttons at all.

Even S tier builds currently fall short once they move into empowered. Again this is why people are quitting, they are already starting to struggle on the level 90 monos and once they hit empowered they die so often that it goes from not being fun to not even having motivation to continue to play through that slog.

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For the same reason no one complains about souls like (well they rage while they play but they don’t truly have serious complaints). This is meant to be the game. You signed up for something hard and hard is what you get.

LE people are signing in for a game directed at the average player who struggles playing something like PoE but hates D4 whether for being too easy or just for having horrible mechanics.

Even if you gradually increase the difficulty all it makes is you struggle sooner. What people need to deal with the current empowered monos is much better gear than they have and the blessings they can’t even have unless they are doing empowered so if you are bringing increasing difficulty early on, people will quit early one. They feel the increase is gradual but that won’t change the fact that they won’t be able to progress and that progression wall is coming in earlier.

That is your opinion, my opinion is that you are a very good player but you don’t realize it.

The jump in PoE to white maps is actually a decrease in difficulty and funny enough it’s the same in LE because the moment you hit the first mono you now are not dealing with overtunned mobs (or not as many at least).

Also in PoE there are an extremely limited number of builds that work for the average player. You got RF and maybe siege ballista. They work with virtually 0 investment hence why PoE is even easier right now at the lower level so to speak but the difficult content is of course much harder.

Smooth progression is needed of course, I just disagree how we should be creating that smooth progression. In my opinion up to empowered mono it shouldn’t be harder than normal. Then you start scaling corruption which is by far the most player friendly you can get here. Average players will not struggle too much to get their gear and blessings and then they have what they need to progress.

Oh it isn’t, once you are in the level 80ish monoliths that’s when most builds that aren’t very tanky start having deaths to things that are not timeline bosses and the level 90 even more. It’s not to a point where players will immediately quit but they will happen occasionally. Once empowered hits most players are dying at least half the maps because the gear can’t handle it.

Your idea of smooth progression bases itself on trying to get the players to be better in order to overcome the problem but that assumes the player is at a point where he will get better. Each person will only ever get so good at any game and if we assume these people already have been playing ARPGs for a while, they aren’t going to get any better at it. Maybe if they had the time and willpower to nolife it but most won’t have one or both of those hence you can’t expect to change things by increasing the skill of the player but rather by increasing their gear before they tackle a harder challenge.

The reason for me mentioning both is because both are needed at the same time. With level 100 for gear drops and grand blessings available, players can finally tackle the issues. Also you have higher quality gear drop in general which is very important for being able to farm. The difference is quite significant from normal to empowered and ideally this would be done at 300 corruption but I’m not asking for that much.

And my build might have not been at a good, it doesn’t matter, luck of the drop, call it whatever you will, point is that build was doing FAR better than any other build I played and once complete it would be an S tier build capable of doing 1K+ corruption no problem. Empowered was the point of failure as it has always been but it struggled less even in level 90 monos.

Like I said, I don’t care enough to spend several hours of my day searching for it. Want to believe it, go ahead. Don’t want to, keep thinking whatever you want and not understanding what is happening behind the scenes. It’s not really my problem.

Is it? I’ve seen people kill it without struggling but I’ve hardly ever seen people kill uber uber bosses in PoE without a bit of sweating, admitedly that can just be me not having seen the right people do it either. On a personal note I am an average player, pinnacle content is so far from ever being playable for me that I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

Sure thing, keep deluding yourself that most people have much better gear by that point. Usually I do have better gear than that but not significantly better.

Every single build I followed to this day has been, get this gear, follow this skill tree path and done in any other ARPG and guess what, it worked. If LE is the only game that requires you to understand millions of possible variations at any single point and when to do them and when to start switching things up then the problem is probably not on the player but again, keep believing what you will. A build is meant to be as simple as that, it’s like following a cook book, you shouldn’t need to be required to know what ingredients to replace in case some are missing because guess what, most people don’t have the knowledge for that.

Keep telling yourself that. I have heard it straight from their mouths and even some streamers talked about that specific statement a couple times during their streams shortly after. You missed it, that’s ok, we’re all busy. You want to call someone a liar just because they are not willing to waste hours from their life to search for it just for an “I told you so” then go right ahead. It is not my problem that you don’t want to learn the reasons why things are in the state they are which for the most part you do, you just don’t know all.

I actually misunderstood what he meant there but still, same thing, build was fine for the stage it was in, in fact more survivable than anything else I’ve played and I’ve been playing since early access and I did push corruption in early access when things weren’t as bad as they are now.

Prior to delve when PoE started to get worse retention was always 50% loss in one month and that is still 5 digits of players in game all the way into the early access so I’d say you are wrong and if you doubt this time is easy to fact check me. Just look at steam DB though granted, it doesn’t has numbers prior to steam but prior to steam we have no public numbers anyway.

443

If you’re not willing to provide a source for this statement then let’s just drop it and agree that it was never said.

Or they quit because they already reached 1000 corruption and got bored.

I agree that that are at different points, but do you really think I had the same defences as you at the same point and struggled with lvl 90 content? The answer is no, I didn’t because I actually built defences.

The average player knows to cap their resists but you haven’t even managed to do that on the class that is easiest to get resistances.

with how power creep has gotten, 1000 corruption is a fairly average build these days, certainly not the benchmark of an S tier build.

Objectively false, you’ve never played an S tier build so you can’t really comment on this.

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