You still will be tho, unless you’re expecting this lockout to be weeks.
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It’s almost like I would have voted for options that aren’t on the form!
My point was that it would essentially shift the entire release calendar back a fixed time, so you can still plan around an offline start date and enjoy the content in exactly the same way.
I am against linking the offline/legacy release to a kill, because it creates situations where you don’t know when content would be available. That is not fun. I also proposed delaying cycles itself with the same time so that you never have a situation where you quickly level to a point where you can beat the boss, but it’s not available.
Exactly same game, just 1 week delayed. Because cheaters will inevitably ruin any online races, especially if the race is around a boss we know nothing of at its release. (Example: Fractured Crown recipe with crafting rework)
Disappointed to see the plan to add a generic dodge roll. One major differentiator for how each class feels is the unique ways they approach mobility. Giving everybody a generic evade makes the overall game feel of classes blend together and also makes LE stand out less as it gets homogenized into the mold of other ARPGs.
Was dissapointed to see it added to Grim Dawn as well fwiw.
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Sorry for piggybacking off of you, this is not a direct argument against you. I think dodge roll can be done well. But I don’t think there is a unique feel of the way classes approach mobility. It is a puzzle to solve per class, but it’s not really unique to the class. There’s always something similar in each. As I stated above tho, I think dodge will just be a way to compliment the traversal skills, though perhaps I’m giving them too much credit.
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If it’s not interrupting my cast, just tell players a Movement skill is considered mandatory, you don’t need to add (the exact same) one to every class.
Then why not just walk out? If it’s designed around using a dash/dodge roll, it either needs to be fast paced, or it needs a big range to work with big boss circles, countering your other points about range. Or worse, it’s point #3
It wouldn’t be the first ridiculous decision made by a game company. I put it on the list because I want to point out that such an design choice is questionable to a lot of players. I’m allowed to be concerned about unlikely scenarios, right?
Because you’re no longer choosing EITHER damage or a dodge, because you get one for free already. And again, see #1 & 2 as to why it’s gonna either have to have decent range, or be a reflex button.
It’s why I edited later that an auto-proc option would solve most of it. Turn it into a life-saver instead of a mobility button, which would allow for similar boss design, but with giving players that prefer the “slow beefy behemoth” playstyle more than the zippity Rogue.
The point was that in Souls-like games, boss encounters are not designed around you having any gear, just a dodge roll. It becomes a dangerous pitfall to just design bosses around “just dodge it” mechanics, which over time reduces boss build diversity.
Oh, and Wolcen also had dodge mechanics that ended up being mandatory for certain bosses. I’m sure if you’ve heard about that game, it wasn’t all good. (Although it’s low-hanging fruit, so I opted for Grim Dawn first)
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Any word on remaining story acts?
Similar yes, but different enough for flavor.
Sentinels typically have long range charges, rogues have short range dashes and movement baked into some standard skills, mages and acolytes have teleports or psuedo teleports (flame rush) that move them instantly between selected points, primalists have a leap with a relatively long animation that functions closer to Sentinel charges. Some skills have limits like requiring a target, some are faster, some are slower, some can give you invulnerability during the action. Some are more for utility, some do useful damage.
Dodge roll does the exact same thing for every character.
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Incredible artwork. A pleasure just to read.
That will largely depend on how it’s gonna be implemented.
So far, they have done a decent job with creating a layered (and gated) system of individually simple systems, but that combine into a lot of potential complexity.
By the name choice, I’m assuming the concept is that they are drops/crafts you can apply on any skill, so it would be akin to PoE support gems. Depending on the design, power-creep, and whether they’ld be class-specific, you would still only add a small-ish additional choice to each skill at the end, as the base skill points would remain free to chose. A gearable Ascension path, I guess it would be?
They seem to be more analogous to cluster jewels, since they add several nodes that can be optionally taken. Perhaps each sigil will have different nodes they add, or have different numbers of added nodes based on rarity/boss difficulty defeated.
If it’s not interrupting my cast, just tell players a Movement skill is considered mandatory, you don’t need to add (the exact same) one to every class.
I don’t mean it won’t interrupt, I meant it doesn’t need to be a reflex, the interrupt is for convenience especially if they add skills that have longer animations, this allows that.
Then why not just walk out? If it’s designed around using a dash/dodge roll, it either needs to be fast paced, or it needs a big range to work with big boss circles, countering your other points about range. Or worse, it’s point #3
Because it’s big enough that you can’t walk it out even if it’s a slow charge? I don’t think this counters any point about range, since I said you’d need the dash skill still. You dodge and then dash to give you the range to get out in time.
It wouldn’t be the first ridiculous decision made by a game company. I put it on the list because I want to point out that such an design choice is questionable to a lot of players. I’m allowed to be concerned about unlikely scenarios, right?
Well I kept asking people where did we hear it’s an iframe. So I think I’m allowed to find it to be a ridiculous argument also.
Because you’re no longer choosing EITHER damage or a dodge, because you get one for free already. And again, see #1 & 2 as to why it’s gonna either have to have decent range, or be a reflex button.
But I’m giving you scenarios why it doesn’t need to be that way and it doesn’t make any sense to be added that way. some dash skills will not have the range without dodge, and some will. There are so many scenarios where this doesn’t need t be the case. It doesn’t need to just be “ranged” or “reflex”. They can make dodge just not hurt you’re rolling something int he ground and not an iframe to anything else. There’s just so much I can continue adding here.
They’re definitely designed around having gear, they just give the option for skilled players. IF it was designed around that, then the game would not be as popular as it is. Everyone knows you can definitely get the gear to overpower things in Dark Souls and Elden Ring, but mostly no one plays that way and save it for the very end.
Yeah there were other issues there. The ways fight can be designed to be active without also making it iframe or reflex button -
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Make dodge animation cancel and movement to dodge through enemies. Making attacks have a shorter period but not enough to be “quick” reflex, and more so movement. Example: swipes front, so you dodge to the right or back, he then swaps right afterwards, so you’d dodge or dash again.
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Just make more things on floor that you can dodge over, bonus if it gives iframe to things only already in the ground.
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Make dodge button be only for projectiles. You know what I mean.
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Make dodging be more of a super armor, you don’t dodge all dmg, but rather get significant dmg reduction but with bigger cooldowns, in order for classes to not have to disengage completely, don’t make it reliant to live oneshots, but rather sustain builds.
I can suggest even more, but I think just making dodge be a repositioning skill and having fights mean you need to reposition more often than a traversal skill is enough to make dodge interesting and fun. Just keeps fights active but don’t* involve dodge to be around one shots.
Edited the don’t in.
Nah, it’s mostly the same. instant dashes not so different than teleport, but I think this argument is pointless. I just disagree with this take in general. I’m not interested this part of the conversation.
It doesn’t do the exact same thing for every build, because builds have different restrictions, whether be different animations if it ani-cancels, or just having different positioning requirements depending on the skills. It’s only the same in a vacuum. We don’t even know it’s implementation yet, they can still be unique per class.
I’m honestly suprised by that. Because my experience was the complete opposite.
In my mind GD is a worse game for a dodge mechanic because of it’s engine and more traditional core design that makes stats a lot more important than player skill (even more so than LE).
But the dodge in GD was an all around win for me, though there has not been new content yet that has been designed around it, only maybe the Sunder mechanic.
My reasons:
In regular play it does only indirectly help to mitigate damage. Regular mobs don’t have enough telegraphed attacks for the dodge to make an realiable difference. Maybe here and there with stuff like slow and hard hitting projectiles or the blitz like charge attacks of some enemies. These are just some nice to have “feels good” moments.
Instead it helps with repositioning and navigating the map. It helps to keep up the action and makes traversing the map and/or jumping from enemy group to enemy group a lot more engaging and fun.
In boss fights it adds an additional way to deal with telegraphed attacks. Yes Sunder is there but so is the removal of almost all - Resistance effects. So no, in my experience dodging the attacks is not mandatory, even in HC (doesn’t mean face tanking everything while being sundered is or should be a good idea).
So, I think GD is a good example on how to add a dodge to an already developed game and how to handle adjusting existing mechanics.
Personally I look forward to it. Also the rest of the new content sounds good. I also like their priorities as long as there is enough focus on fixing existing classes bug-wise and balance-wise. I don’t mind having power discrepancies on some classes but the difference between the stronger ones and the weaker ones feels quite extreme.
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I could care less about most of the things on the time line. I am just tired of grinding stability, to then turn around and grind corruption…and needing to do it for every single alt I create.
It makes the end game as mind numbing and boring as watching paint dry.
i hope you revert this dodge feature, imo its not healthy for the game. overall good news but dodge is meh. imo.
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Dodge roll? Yikes. This game has a really good boss manual/movement skill dodging with good telegraphs. And you want to ruin that with making it into a game about hitting space bar at the exact right time for invulnerability frames? Very disappointing.
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And what you described is a target dummy not a dps target dummy, dps taget dummy shows dps…
Problom is offline can be edited. Meaning u can easily beat the Pinnacle boss with a well decked out character in a couple hrs of cycle starting.
Which will destroy the mystery of what builds would be top tier at killing it. Same thing with legacy.
Offline is basically legacy as well its just doesnt have MG or global chat.
Both offline and legacy dont reset it makes since to tie these two together
Its actually good they are doing this. Imo te Pinnacle boss shoudnt unlock for all mode till it has been killed in cycle mode for the dirst time. And for a good reason as above
Tooltip dps is useless, you can have 1/10 tooltip dps and do more dmg depending on the build. Real dps target dummy (like the one in TL:I) shows your real dps which is actually useful. Damage numbers alone mean nothing since they dont account for hit frequency unless you want to record a video and add them up in slow motion xD
I’m pretty much sceptical. EHG didn’t fully deliver on their last roadmap why should they now? Mike always said reworks are something big and need to be specificly called out. So I guess outdated classes wont get reworks until 1.5+?
I just take a wild guess now and I’m not 100% sure about this and it’s only from the few people I know who play Hack and Slash games. The average Andys of said group have 0 intrest in Pinacle content when they have more then enough tho do to get started in the monolith.
I’m pretty unsure who they make the content for and what we get in the end. At least there is one story chapter mentioned so we propably don’t get Wolcen 2.0.
I don’t know… without that roadmap I had higher hopes to see stuff I (like myself, like my problem, like my taste ^^) would happy and hyped about. Now I feel like I best uninstall untill 1.5+.
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