Of course that is the case but i’m just saying I have seen many scenarios where a tooltip was completely opposite of what they wanted for whatever reasons.
I do honestly see full screen builds for games such as this. Full screen capable of reaching ideal baseline of end game (300 corrupt according to EHG) and slightly more but full screen and being top 5 in corruption is absurd unless of course, your items are just that must superior than others but as an example, you would just have to use similar level of gears.
This is the correct option. But they don’t pretend it never happened. Just like they don’t pretend that the server issues at launch never happened. Just like they don’t pretend any of the other hundreds of bug fixes since the start never happened. Otherwise they wouldn’t be bugs. Bugs happen, they get acknowleged and fixed.
Because, when the devs designed the skill and the mastery, they had an intended balance in mind. If there was no bug, it would have been at 4% from the start and no one would be talking about this at all.
Once they get the data from the skill in play, they can adjust accordingly for the next time they rebalance things.
Profane veil was doing 200k ward. This is obviously a ridiculous number. 10x less means you can make 20k ward. Which is still a really high number. Certainly higher than intended. So I think the question is more: why stop at 4%. It can easily be 2% or 1%.
No single skill should be responsible for single-handedly carrying you into 1k+ corruption, which is already way too high for what the devs want. If it is, it needs to be fixed. The only issue is if it’s a bug, which should be fixed as soon as possible, or if it’s just a balance issue and it should be rebalanced at the end of the cycle.
I’ll repeat this again: nobody cares what the intended balance was supposed to be. The only thing that matters is how the skill works in reality. How a skill works is much more than what a number in a node says: it’s how well the skill interacts with other nodes, how passives interacted with the skill, how the skill interacts with other skills, and etc. Reducing a number in a sheet can have cascading effects on how a build feels to play. That’s why balance is much more fragile than what it looks like on a surface, because one interaction can lead to several other interactions feeling off and a build being “dead.”
You have your skill changed and now it’s the number the devs wanted it to be. Great. All that’s going to happen is that people are simply going to ignore that interaction, no data gets created because nobody is going to bother with the interaction, and the skill gets left behind as if it ever existed. Just ask anyone who plays with the older classes like Shaman and Forge Guard and you’ll witness how classes completely stagnate for years because nobody bothers playing with the skills enough to see how the interactions are supposed to work.
One skill carrying a build means that a team should look at all of the skills, see how they are balanced, and see if you can create a good equilibrium where all the layers work in harmony. Instead, the devs are just pretending that interaction never happened, nobody’s going to bother playing with that particular interactions, and the major flaws with the other interactions not working nearly as well as they should be become a glaring issue.
Warlocks were getting to 2k corruption because of profane veil alone. And it was because of a bug. This should definitely have been fixed. The only people that are upset by it are the people that were abusing it to get 2k corruption, which, as has been pointed out, is more than 1.5k the intended goal.
The community voted that you shouldn’t rebalance things mid-season, but personally, if a build is performing 10 times higher than the norm, it should be fixed right away. Because the game is much more fun when the classes are closer in balance.
So some players care. And others don’t because they just want to play with a broken toy and wag their e-Peen at others. The only people that are actually mad at this change are the exploiters because they can’t exploit anymore. Even though warlock can still get a ridiculous high amount of ward. And even though falconer still does an insane amount of damage, just not full screen clear.
That’s the fragility of game design and balance if a single numerical change on a single node is the difference between being able to clear 2K corruption and not even being able to clear 400 corruption (to be honest, I have no idea how those specific builds do now that specific interaction was changed, but I have seen similar cases where builds that rely on a single interaction completely fall apart). Yes, being able to clear, say 1K corruption with even trash gear just because of this interaction is something that needs to be looked at, but that’s the point: you’re supposed to communicate the changes and see in advance whether changing this interaction will lead to cascading collapses. It’s one thing if you reach a massive power-level with trash gear; it’s another thing entirely if the change leads to people who spend millions of gold in legendary affixed gear to invest in a build now can’t clear half of what’s intended to be a “decent” build.
You can keep saying to yourself that only “exploiters” get mad at sweeping changes without actual communication, but anybody is going to be mad if the devs completely ignore the overall equilibrium of a class and its interactions and simply say “must change number” without any regard to how a class performs as a whole.
For me, I enjoyed the full screen build in general. I would rather that playstyle to speed run at a severely lower difficulty at times then always be forced to play the highest difficulty as the means for grinding/farming.
Dmg + Radius was extremely broken but now the dmg is still doing insane amounts of damage and is not a problem as many are still are complaining. However, I would’ve liked for less damage but more radius. Just overall more fun imo.
On a what’s on paper perspective, sure, the dmg is ridiculous but in reality, its exchanged for no defense. Sure, one can argue that the power exchange is still ridiculously broken in terms of comparison to how other skills are scaled but overall, it is not even top 5 in pushing high corruption anymore even with “broken” dmg. You need more then just glass cannon and somewhat more hp/armor but game is still not at a state where it is balanced and working good.
My last played character, 2 days ago, was still the full explosion ballista build but I can definitely tell you my other characters with the same amount of gear or less is well more capable of pushing further.
Let’s put aside the fact that no ARPG ever managed class balance properly.
A single numerical change can be huge in any game. Let’s take Fallout 4, for example. A .44 pistol does 28 dmg. If the devs made a mistake and that pistol suddenly did 280 damage, it would break the whole game. It’s suddenly one of the highest damage weapons in the whole game. Does that mean that the weapons aren’t properly balanced in the first place? Or does it mean that a game that is balanced around a certain X value will become broken if X is 10x higher?
Let’s also address the issue that PV warlocks aren’t now able to clear 400 corruption. That’s because the only reason they ever reached that high was because of incredibly high ward values that made them effectively unkillable, so they could do damage at their leisure. So obviously, if the same build isn’t now immortal, it will struggle because it never had any decent damage in the first place.
HOWEVER, warlocks can still get higher corruption, as long as you don’t lean solely on PV (or even if you simply don’t use it).
They communicated it. They even did a survey on it. They even said they were going to fix those bugs before the patch came out. And it clearly didn’t lead to a cascading collapse because warlocks are still strong. They’re just not immortal anymore due to a single skill.
I imagine roguelikes do this type of game system better where the power ups are stronger and more regular and the intensity / tension continues to mount until you reach the end if there is an end.
If I were to put this genre into words its a drip feed casino that is devoid of actual depth and the vast majority of people in general only endure its highs / lows in small doses.
That’s generally not a good sign but these companies have found ways to monetize this process and offset the unnatural audience bleed.
I’m part of the audience who can only endure these games for a week or two WITH friends. Otherwise I get the sense that The walls are closing in and I can smell the cheese around the corner.
I’m waiting for someone to explain to me what these games actually offer from each other aside from QOL difference or how you get x items.
More != better. Although given enough time from 1.0 to 1.1 people will surely believe that there is now more and thus feel the need to run the game once again. Sink 10+ hours and possibly start to feel like they could have done something else with their time.
But hopefully I’m wrong and the updates are very engaging.
It’s the difference between making a niche game and making a game that has broad appeal.
Generally games that are truly difficult or niche (Ninja Gaiden, Marvel VS Capcom 2) or games that are very odd or operate in an unconventional manner.
When you go for a game with broad appeal generally all your systems & mechanics operate in the least offensive manner possible to the average consumer. And there are many safe guards and hand holding to make sure the player gets all the way through the campaign without feeling too stressed at any point in time. ( Breath of the Wild, Yoshi Story )
Not true, You could make the campaign very simple and easy and then ramp up the difficulty slowly more and more as the corruption goes higher and higher , which I believe the game is doing mostly but there are some points in the later acts that have some pretty obnoxious mobs if you’re not grabbing new items periodically. You also have to make sure your more expert players are getting something out of the early experience or are aware that later on it ramps up a lot. Which is information you might want to hide from casuals.
Well, which form of balance do you care about? There’s the Falconer / Warlock / Runemaster vision where the skills and passives are in harmonious synergy and you’re able to do a lot of different great things with those builds. Then you have the several years outdated Primalist / Forge Guard “balance” where nothing works and half the nodes don’t even make sense. Regardless of how the devs envisioned the new classes, this is the power level people are now going to expect (and I’m not talking in terms of corruption numbers, I’m talking a smooth progression in gameplay where half the passives and nodes aren’t complete traps leading to wasting your time on a build that accomplishes nothing).
It looks like people are adapting well to the changes and are providing meaningful use with Profane Veil and its Minion Health absorption node. Great to hear that the class is resilient enough to withstand the changes. Other big changes won’t be so lucky, but a good thing that came out of it was the continued discussion on comparing Ward against other defensive mechanics, and hopefully something good can come out of the defense rebalance.
True, but ARPGs like LE life from providing a ‘fresh experience’ of some kind. That’s how they stay alive, it’s a necessity for player retention and has turned out to work better then waiting long times to provide big quality content in a single dump. Downside of the cyclic system in my eyes.
But even without taking that into consideration currently for an ARPG like LE… the content is fairly limited.
We’re missing 3 chapters of the main story, which in itself wouldn’t warrant a 1.0 in my eyes, but here we are and the devs call it that. Probably funding was getting problematic… otherwise I can’t explain why they would release it in that state in the first place.
Also the end-game system is minimalistic. We have different variety there on the market… D3 which is ‘run this one style of mechanic’ and that’s it… the only one being even more minimalistic. D4 simply provides ‘the open world’ which lacks clear goals.
And then we get to ‘similar’ systems. Torchlight infinite for example… a small amount of end-game content… but they have a very intriguing system attached to it with shaping your own experience, empowering run content, offering several ‘tiers’ of the same maps to progress through despite there being barely any available as well as pinnacle bosses above that. PoE… self explanatory with the sheer content dump (in several bad ways too) they got over the years.
LE just feels like the least fleshed out one, which is why 1.1 will be so important there. We have bosses that aren’t ‘pinnacle’ but just types overseeing each area, feels just different. The mechanical depth for the end-game is also not quite there, they could’ve implemented a lot more player agency there… adjusting monolith goals personally or putting run content into more tiers to go through to make it feel like it’s more then it currently is.
But that’s simply not the case despite being fairly well done, open-ended number hunting though doesn’t feel all too compelling for many people, the feeling of progression through that is just quite different.
Are they going for that in the first place though?
As much as I know they just wanted to make ‘a really nice feeling ARPG’… and it turned out to be exactly that.
So they’re in-between rather… catering to loads of people because it turned out well… not intentionally making cuts on their vision to make it happen though, it just aligns well and the ARPG market is after all a bit stale at times.
I get where you’re coming from there definitely. But that’s the weakness of EHG, their balancing work is a bit… wonky to say the least.
They provide really nice mechanics and content as well as it being visually stunning, specifically so for a indie company of the genre. But getting a grasp on having their stuff have a baseline to work from… not their forte
Yes, and it’s the devs’ intention to bring the older masteries up to par with the new ones. Probably while also buffing monos again so the norm becomes 300-500 corruption. It will just take some time.
It was a bug, the node was scaling radius not area.
It wasn’t a balancing change, it was a bug fix. You seem like a native English speaker, so I’d have expected sufficient English language comprehension to be able to tell the diffiernce between “bug fix” and “balance change/nerf”. I know they start with the same letter, but still…
Tuning, yes, but bug fixes are different & it was doing things (full screen) hhat it really shouldn’t have.
Yeah, I remember spending a long time changing and re-ordering my autoexec.bat and config.sys files to load the right drivers in the right order to get games to run.
Didn’t Quake 1 have rocket jumping? While it may have been a bug originally, they kept it as a feature, which is there prerogative.
Does that “break the game” though? I can still connect & play with duped items.
No, he’s just quite clearly either talking out of his arse, using way too much hyperbole or has no idea what a non-dead-dead build is like.
Are there any builds for the other masteries that can reach 2k corruption?
That happens when there isn’t a competitive environment with a ladder. Some people seem to get their knickers awfully twisty about balance changes in PoE.
Yes, because GGG had a long time of official competitions going on and those people stayed, and even nowadays we see regular competitions done by the big PoE streamers and even often helped out by GGG itself.
So it has that competitive argument as well, even if it’s not directly in-built.
As soon as a company provides a competitive environment then they need to tackle it accordingly, anything else is simply unprofessional towards those people going for it.
Should it be there in the first place? I’ll argue it doesn’t create a positive environment commonly, so I would rather see it gone and be done with it.
LE is very limited in terms of build variety so they need to work constantly on balance to make sure as many skills are viable as possible. Otherwise people will just lose interest before the cycle ends and then just not come back.
I find this funny, because LE has a LOT of build variety. Certainly more than D4. And probably more than PoE, since most PoE skills aren’t used for endgame and most builds end up using the same secondary skills, like the same auras, enduring cry, etc.
You’re gonna need to explain this because there are multiple sources I could pull up right now to refute everything you just stated. Along with ones from this game.
Pretty much any build you come up with has a chance to clear endgame. It can reach just 300 corruption or much higher, but unless you screw up really bad (and you have tools to fix it, including community helping you improve it) there really is no build that can’t do empowered monos and dungeons.
D4 is self-explanatory. There really isn’t that much build diversity.
PoE has, in theory, more build diversity. But there are many skills that simply won’t carry you to endgame. Many of them are used simply for leveling. Not to mention that many builds use the same secondary skills, like I mentioned. Almost all builds use enduring cry/molten shell, for example.
Now, it can be argued that this is the case because PoE has a lot more endgame than LE does. And that is a fair point. But as it stands right now, you can play pretty much anything you want in LE and know you can still reach endgame.
