Months of waiting for something about multiplayer and trade, and then this drops. I guess it’s better to be dissapointed now that later so I don’t have to wait with anticipation for news/release and can focus my attention somewhere else.
Too bad
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Multiplayer doesn’t just mean trading. Some people might want to play with friends while still actually being able to find loot instead of having to buy everything. And drop rates are a huge part of balance, its to much work to have to develop 2 different sets of drop rates.
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To many players multiplayer and trade are synonymous, but that is an assumption. To cast assumptions aside, EHG advertised in their kickstarter a trade system so players such as myself were not wrong for assuming trade was part of the game.
Kickstarter Trade Information from EHG
Player economy is one of the most enjoyable aspects of this genre for many players and we want to do it justice. Last Epoch will have a Bazaar system in which players will be able to anonymously buy and sell items from other players using the gold they’ve found on their adventures. We are designing this system very carefully to ensure that while the Bazaar can be a fantastic way to find certain items, it will never overshadow the rewards of engaging with the world yourself. Fear not, friends will be able to freely gift items between each other as long as they have been friends for a reasonable amount of time.
They gave us that expectation explicitly and are now backtracking. They took our money and lied to us. We have every right to be upset.
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Multiplayer is about playing with other people.
Trade may be an aspect of multiplayer in many games, but trade doesn’t even require multiplayer.
As already quoted earlier Trasochi already did say, that they will look into changes for specific things.
Also there are already ways to increases drop chances for specific type of items, including affix shards, uniques or specific types of items (axes, body armour, helemt etc.)
Great news!
I completely disagree. If you (TehGrief) or anyone else complaining for a refund, has played the game and gotten enjoyment out of it for months, then you got your money’s worth. On the other hand, if the game was purchased very recently, I think there should be a path to a refund, assuming it takes away the persons ability to play the game.
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Was this not their kickstarter vision?
Fear not, friends will be able to freely gift items between each other as long as they have been friends for a reasonable amount of time.
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I find it amazing how many people refer back to a Kickstarter promise and say that EHG lied and now the game is going to fail and be rubbish.
Three things that strike me as most astounding:
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Kickstarter support comes with zero guarantees that a feature listed when you supported the game development will be what you get when the game launches. Its the nature of ALL kickstarters - its an investment in potential of a product not a guaranteed product. You are just as likely to get absolutely nothing because of failure. I do not understand how people consider Kickstarter feature lists and marketing bumph as rock solid commitments. Its not how crowdfunding works and there is a tremendous risk that anyone who participates needs to understand before spending their hard earned money.
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LE has been available to play as a single player game and has been around for while now with favourable reviews on the whole. How, all of sudden is the game ruined and no longer playable just because of an announcement of a way to trade with your friends that you play with? This seems totally illogical.
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Development projects of any length never, by their very nature, stick to the original spec, something will always need to be changed or adjusted based on a multitude of factors - from a designer changing their mind to community input to technical or technology issues to financial considerations to changes in what people want over time. The longer a development cycle the more likely things will change. This is ALL NORMAL. And the positive thing about this is that things can STILL change again in the future. The game is still in beta. When 0.9 drops with this MP and gifting, its still in BETA. There is time for any number of changes and new ideas around all aspects of the game including Trade.
Imho, people need to take a chill pill.
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If the person wasn’t in the zone when the item dropped, you can’t gift it. TLDR, wait for your friends rather than being ####s & zooming on ahead.
Love you too mate. 
They didn’t lie, the situation changes. If things don’t pan out as you expect but you still continue on the original path, that’s a recipe for failure. Things change in real life.
That was a pretty long-winded way of saying we’re getting the same shitty system from D3.
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from mike’s stream today
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It’s not about being an ass, but more about playing a game you enjoy.
If you have more time than your friends, then maybe you still want to play the game but not on a secondary char.
So if you play on ahead with your “group char” and get an item that you would gift someone from your group anyway, you’re only getting punished because they weren’t online (or in the zone) at that exact moment.
This feels kind of patronizing, don’t you think so?
Maybe @indria was talking about freely trading with anyone, but if they were talking about a scenario with a fixed group of friends, then the currently proposed system objectively feels punishing and patronizing.
I usually agree with a lot of the stuff you say, but that’s some pretty weird argument.
Feels kind of like saying “Yeah, you might have payed that money because it said you would buy a Ferrari and the picture showed a Ferrari, but here’s your Prius. Sorry, the situation has changed, but hey, it’s still a car after all!”.
I know it might not be the perfect analogy, but it sure feels very similar lol.
Damn! I hope that nobody actually does this if they have like >100 hours in the game. That would be some scummy shit imo.
I have a lot of hours on LE. My intent with ARPGs tends to lean to really maxxing out a character. Taking my time is ok. Im in no hurry. I play to be by myself so partying or multiplayer arent of interest to me…but a well rolled Helm of the Scurry is…or a logi’s hunger with LP. I mean…for months all Ive done is hunt (around 500 corruption) a logis hunger with LP on it. Ive dropped 2 of them with 1 LP but havnt hit with craft what I need to make my build better. I am extremely bored with that hunt but I really love my character and want it to be as good as I can make it. What I see happening in my LE future will be, if we are looking at 3 month cycles, never having a character that could live up to what Im aiming for. If all I can do is what I’ve been doing and I have 3 months to do it I cant see how I will get those build defining uniques. My builds will be slaves to the first few good drops I get. I dont like building around drops like that. And yes, Im sure there will be builds that’ll do all content with no uniques etc…but I like my build. I want to play it every cycle and beat the pants off the leader boards if I can. I dunno…Ive really been hanging on to LE this last year…and honestly it was for an opportunity for a bigtime scurry helm…or a 3lp Logi’s or a few others so I could really max some toons and have a real pride in my build. I understand what the concept is and why the devs have gone this way…I do. But GD it Im sad…and a bit angry. I feel like this whole time the expectation I was given was that we would have TRADE. I dont want to play any of those other games Ive put thousands of hours into already. LE had the pace down perfect for me. Playing LE really helped me get through the death of my brother last year and I was really excited to hunker down with the patch and start new and be able to eventually find a unique that someone else would value as much as I would that unique I need and then we could trade. NOONE IS GOING TO TRADE A 3 LP SCURRY HELM…probably not even your best friend but certainly not someone you dont know. Its too build defining. So in the end I’ll play LE but I dont know that it will be able to keep me. This game was going in a direction that suited me really well…and very sadly maybe not so much now. I want to play and achieve more than I already have in the game. This isnt possible without trade.
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No it would be fair. If you invest in a possibly great title on kickstart or EA it should be fully refundable at any point if the developers do something you realy don’t like.
For example THIS is the first time I feel EHG is activly making a big mistake. First of all they steped back from the initial idea of the bazar while they said they’ll find something else to better fit the game and players need.
Now they had time to go through all the feedback there was given with a lot of good ideas and all we get is a lame ass D3ish system that is overcomplicated and unintuitve. To me this looks like a big joke and it looks like EHG isn’t able to come up with a meaningfull system in time or at all.
For someone who dislikes trade restrictions this is a valid reason to refund the game or to never touch it all.
In my eyes it’s a big letdown and I rather want no trade system instead of such an abomination. Pair this with D3 drop rates and be done with it.
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Disappointing to say the least. Would much rather have a 2 trade limit on items maybe even coupled with a soulbound system. Or an auction house that uses the 2/2 trades if sold on there, where as if you traded it to a “friend” it would still have 1/2 trades left (Allowing your friend to trade it to their friends once etc). Friend being the defining word, and would be up for discussion, either being steam friends for X amount of time (or just being friends before said item was dropped not sure if possible to do certain stuff like that /shrug).
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Doesn’t split the community any more than this system already does. Broadly speaking people fall into 3 categories. 1: they only want to play with trade. 2: they only want to play without trade. 3: they will play in both modes. The only group that is split is group 3, and that group tends to actively play in both modes anyway. For the non trade players it also does not matter at all if the community is split because… the community outside the 3 other people in their party is irrelevant. You have no way to interact with it.
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The crazy thing I see here is the sheer amount of disappointing attitudes from people. I’ve paid more for a single meal at a restaurant than this game and this game has given me 100’s of hours of fun so far. The hell are you demanding refunds for it? I’ve paid 100’s of dollars towards WoW subs in the past and you don’t see me going for refunds there after I quit playing it. I got my fun and hours and hours of enjoyment, it was worth the money I paid and so has this game been already. You wanna get refunds and stop this company being able to pay their staff and stop progression on development, ruining it for the players that still want to play? Come on…
The definition of Early Access is a game that is SUBJECT TO CHANGE and not something that is going to stay as exactly what they promised at the start. If you bought into an EA game and expected to get everything that was promised at the very start of the game, that’s on you. Developing games change, as things become more or less possible, as the developers vision for the game changes, as the fans and community give feedback and change the mind of the developers based on that as well. To expect it to rigidly stay to the promises made at the very start is beyond short sighted and inflexible.
This is probably gonna make some people super mad, but I had to say it, coz the attitude being shown by people like this is super disappointing. People start forcing refunds and taking money from the company that is making the game I happen to really enjoy, will more than definitely kill the game. It’s not just you that is affected when you get a refund. And I guarantee you’ve let more expensive things go in your life, or spent more money on sillier or more temporary things, to demand a refund from this change to trading is just so insanely selfish and short-sighted.
Now I personally am not a fan of this change, all being said, but I am willing to see where this goes. If it is not successful, they WILL change things. I personally love being able to farm items for my friends and that was one of the reasons I stopped playing D3. I don’t necessarily care about trading, as playing the economy is a pain in the ass and can eat up a lot of time that I could be playing the game instead, but I definitely want to be able to give items I find to my friends, at any point and not just when we are playing together. But you know the great thing about it being Early Access? Things WILL change as the game is IN DEVELOPMENT! And the even crazier thing? Even after release, this company is more than definitely going to still make changes based on feedback, release doesn’t even cement anything with games nowadays. For all you know the future may hold a full fledged trading system if the demand is high enough or they settle on a more advanced system that they don’t currently have the ability to do, anything is possible.
For now, leave your feedback on the system, see where things go, and leave the refunding for things that actually matter in life and don’t hurt other people. Refunds kill indie developers, look at what happened to Wolcen when people refund bombed it on release. That game died so fast it’s taken them ages to come back from it, and they are still recovering. Please don’t encourage that kind of behaviour here.
/rant over
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But there are people in both group 1 and 2 who will keep playing the game, even if their preferred method is not available.
Hallo, I am deeply sorry for your loss. I have two brothers and I don’t want to imagine what this feels like. Regarding the game, i have similar concerns, but I believe there is reason for optimism.
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I found this new comment yesterday on reddit by EHG member Trasochi: We plan to continue to introduce new ways to target farm certain items and to tune the potency of existing methods all the way up to 1.0 and afterwards. There are definitely build enabling items that are too difficult to reliably find right now. There are several Idol affixes such as the Smite Chance on Hit affix that are prime examples of that. This is something we aim to fix in future updates.
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We don’t know how cycles will look like. We just assume based on what we know from other games.
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The crafting and dungeon system can be regarded as a foundation to be built upon. The system is so flexible that EHG could introduce a dungeon down the line that lets is add lp to an item, likely with restrictions though. My point here is, that we haven’t seen the final game yet and more exciting opportunities for build optimization might arise.
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