Yes my bad, my brain is fried from making 2 shorts today. Thanks for the correction. I think 3-4 months is not enough time, if you play about 2 hours a day for 30 days thats about 60 hours a month, or 240 hours a season. We have people who played 500 already with little to show for it. Hence i think season must be a lot longer for both causals and hardcore
If it becomes too long, hardcore players will still leave within a month, but they probably wonât be back, especially because LE still doesnât have that much endgame (which should be addressed at 1.1).
240h is plenty of time to reach endgame with several characters. The first one takes longer but it shouldnât be more than 50-80h. And you should have enough twink gear that leveling other characters is fast by then.
If youâre more casual and donât feel like you have enough time, just play legacy. Thereâs no difference in content between them anyway.
But ultimately, too long cycles hurt the game more than shorter ones. Casuals donât really keep the servers busy. By their nature theyâre on and off, might even not play for a week or more.
Besides, like I mentioned, the next 2 cycles should be just to add the core stuff to the game, like a pinnacle boss, etc. Cycles will continue to be the same as legacy for a while.
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AS OF RIGHT NOW, yes there is no difference between legacy and cycles. I remember the devs mentioned they want to fork cycles and legacy. My post is trying to look ahead of where we are. If you have to burn a new cycle every 3-4 months, you risk burn out more so then people quitting because a season was long
If you look at ARPGs with seasons, youâll see that the vast majority of players leaves after a month. And it keeps tapering off after that. Last few days of a cycle thereâs barely 10k people in PoE.
So longer seasons means a longer time with empty servers.
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thatâs only partially true. If a game is running good, people are still chasing items and exploring content and just overall maximizing their experience on the game, a server will not change much. Itâs only a selected few that get mad because RnG is not on their side but with time, sometime will drop that is worth. Might not be what you are looking for but that is what trading is made for, especially for MMOâs.
Would anyone really want a reset if they didnât even reach end game yet?
There are many games that take forever or even never reset cycles and just leaderboards and new patches. D2 did this with just patching for the longest time⌠Seasonal and cycle resets are only necessary when the game is lacking so they reset it so people can compete all over.
Not really. Game satisfaction will always taper off over time. You have fun grinding your monos for a while, you make a few characters but eventually it starts to become repetitive and you need a break. You clearly see this in PoE and PoE has a lot of endgame.
Only a very small portion of players are min-maxers and will care about having those BiS items. And those are usually the hardcore players and they will achieve them much faster than the rest.
Most players reach endgame in PoE in a week or less. And they need even less time for LE.
When D2 came along there was no concept yet of a live seasonal service. D2 was the one that introduced it (or, at least, popularized it).
It has since become a staple of ARPGs because it works to keep player retention high. If you have constant resets, you attract players back again and again. If you donât have them, players will come whenever they feel like, which means that overall your player retention is lower.
No, itâs just a model to increase player retention. Itâs been adopted by many games and even several genres because it has been shown that it works. Itâs part of the player mentality.
It especially works with games that have grind built into it, where players need a break from it regularly.
It doesnât have higher average player count than poe, not even close. Poe is by far the biggest arpg on the market right now.
Itâs not the biggest arpg on the market. Itâs the most popular, but not the biggest. And really only more hardcore arpg players play PoE. The casual audience is far bigger than hardcore players. Most casual arpg fans are playing d4. We canât obtain any numbers of d4 player counts besides steam, which steam is the lowest amount of players for d4. Majority play on bnet, then consoles.
Thatâs the thing, people are already wanting help chasing their items for strong reason. They are very well capable of experimenting all content so it seems to be they just want to min-max so idk, that doesnât seem like a small portion but majority. You have those people that are truly min maxers for a game and then you have those people that are asking for help obtaining items to min/max since you already reached all end game content. What else do you call that?
Exactly my point, if a game reaches end game sooner than later, it will lose players. There is no reason to chase besides for true min/maxers who are a small portion.
For a game such as D2, it didnât matter with lack of content because there was PvP which is limitless as someone will always be better than the other and also, there was an economy to chase that was enjoyable. Rare drops actually gave you that excitement like hitting the lotto while finding items here, just doesnt hit nearly the same.
Yes, resets are good but iâm just saying itâs not the only way to retain players. If you constantly have new content and big patches out, itâs kinda the same as a new reset without having everyone to start all over again or competiting for leaderboards.
It all depends on how the server is going. If majority of players are not even at end game before a reset, would they want a reset? Most definitely not.
Resetting a ladder is just so much easier then full live service and constantly bringing new content, which for arpgs, works pretty well but the bigger picture for live service is keeping a game constantly fresh with new content. A lot of games do seasonal and ladder resets with minimum content. In that aspect, PoE does it well with its cycles.
When you reset, you are retaining players that quit to come try new features. The least features you have to offer, the quicker they go. Wouldnât you want to make it a goal to retain players the whole time rather than just the first 2 weeks?
IMO, Ideally, for a mmoarpg such as this, resets every 3-6 months is a good timing but thatâs only if the game is scaled at a pace where you are able to either:
a) at the bare minimum, obtain a good baseline of gear before the season ends which according to EHG is 300 corruption, which at the moment is more easier than hard so iâm not sure how so many people are having difficulty complaining about drops.
b) keep grinding and having a higher chance to obtaining BiS items at a decent pace⌠Yes, its subjective to find the balance of what is a good pace but thatâs something they need to find out and decide, just like how their baseline for end game is said to be, which is at a extremely low rate where it is too easy.
Maybe âonlyâ was a strong word. Itâs a model that works for sure but itâs also not the only model that has shown to work. D2 did not reset ladder for way longer times than this model, pre 1.11? and it was one of the highest points in terms of player count probably because all those bug items everyone was trying to obtain and experience.
I never once found D2 economy enjoyable, with all the bots/spammers/scammers.
BiS gear in D2 was composed entirely of runewords and uniques. And almost all builds used the same dozen uniques. You barely ever used sets, outside of fringe situations and you never really had much chance of getting those super perfect rare crafts outside of RMT.
BiS gear in LE is much more balanced, where often the BiS for a slot is an exalted that you end up crafting on. Most builds have a healthy mixture of uniques/legendaries and exalts. Itâs more flexible. That does mean that you donât get the same excitment for exalted drops, because you usually have to work on them (though you can get that excitment when the crafting does yield your desired item) vs simply having a unique drop in D2 that you already know is the item you want.
You realize that legacy exists, right? You donât have to start over and compete. For the first cycles, there isnât even any difference between both.
Casual players that donât have much time to play should simply default to legacy. Currently I donât have much time to play due to work, so Iâm playing legacy.
D2 ladder was introduced with 1.10. There were times when the ladder wasnât reset for more than a year. As I said, it was the first one trying out this model.
I think they use different timings for D2R, but I havenât bothered checking that.
With D3, though, they ended up settling for a 3-4 month period (although that is already 2-3 months too long for the content it had).
Ultimately, 3-4 months is enough for most reasonably active players to complete their seasonal goals. Itâs more than the hardcore crowd needs and itâs enough for the semi-casuals.
The casual playerbase doesnât usually bother with cycle, or joins a cycle and continues with the same character in legacy after reset, rather than starting over.
Also, and this is important, people that join cycles/seasons have their expectations moderated. A hardcore min-maxer knows he wonât get his character decked with all LP4 gear and T25+ exalteds. Those that want that, do it in legacy.
Cycles arenât for min-maxing and getting all your perfect gear. That very rarely happens.
Cycle duration is fine as it is. And Iâm saying this even as I have no time to play it and just joined legacy. Which is also as it should be.
The majority did which is why the game was able to substain without new content for years to come.
Highly disagree and it also plays to why the game is what it is today⌠It wasnât just a masterpiece of its time, itâs still considered a masterpiece today. A remake for a game speaks for itself, on how successful it is.
As much as it is majority true on same uniques/runewords/etc. being used and/or knowing prehand what you found, that isnât all to it and most importantly, it worked somehow, making people just keep mfing for hours without complaints.
BiS will always be BiS and shouldnât be obtained by majority of players unless it is in a prolonged timely manner. Gotta give more credit to sets, imo. A full IK / tal set, was more than enough to rock with in a lot more ways than just situational and majority of those sets played a big role during the start but with how outdated the updates and content were, the game was so played out that everyone just eventually got tired and found a loop and urge to just get rushed and start mfing.
Yeah, you ever seen showcase items, there are rares/crafted that can compete and possibly be better than BiS RW/UNIQUEs⌠As for getting? I would say that is more of a chase then RMT personally.
RMT is for games that are dull and canât keep you entertained from grinding, example, LP2+ items in this game which I think are fine but in game such as D2? You can be Mfing for hours, same spot for days, and are more okay with it. Why? Not sure, but I would say a huge part of it is because of the economy.
While there is RMT, it is usually set at a higher price where only the rich can afford. While they are making more sales than we can see, its also at a rate where we donât see, not literally but where the whole market doesnât crumble.
BiS gear in LE is a bit more balanced compared to D2 for sure but it seems the reason for needed/wanting to farm BiS is lacking⌠I personally still think D2 drops have a way higher exciting thrill than here because the economy here is so screwed and this game gives you a lack of drive to keep grinding.
Yes, but normally legacy servers are not that popular⌠If new content were to release and the grinding was kept at similar levels, then more ppl would actually stay legacy.
Yes, ideally, that is the case but idk how realistically,that will play out as planned. People normally for some reason, follow the crowd and majority always shifts to the new season/cycle.
I donât know how other games go but I have seen PoE cycles only being majority packed on cycle resets for the first 2 weeks⌠Legacy? Pretty dead. Same with D2, ladder resets are packed, legacy? Pretty dead.
I canât believe you would still have faith in them to make any new content for any diablo game. They have shown their ineptitude an innumerable amount of times. If you care about D2 at all you should just hope they leave it alone lol.
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D4 is most definitely not the highest average player count in arpgs. You are just straight up making that up. I logged in on my 100 last season to check out if it was still alive, not 1 person in any part of the world I went, and not 1 person in any town i went at all. 0. Nadda. I had the social panel open because I couldnât believe it and it was empty as well. 0 players in any layer I moved too. Chat was dead.
I have religiously followed all streams, all the people who could give hints and so on. Hereâs what Iâve gathered (to note - I havenât engaged with them maliciously, I am genuinely super curious myself, and made it clear am inquiring about it because am super excited):
- Itâs not gonna be nowhere near 5-6 months of waiting between 1.0 and 1.1. This was confirmed.
- They spoke about how they target 3-4 months between each Cycle, but (this is just what I gauged, so, not confirmed) 1.1 seems to be on a faster track. This is based on numerous dev comments and allusions.
- They had SOME 1.1 work done before 1.0âs release.
- The team is aware of how big an impact 1.1 has for the long-term of the game.
With that being said, I expect a 1.1 announcement to be happening between April 15th and 30th, with the release of 1.1 to be happening in mid OR mid-late May.
However, given point (4), I would not be surprised if they delay it a bit. It would hurt them, but nowhere near as much as if they released a bad Cycle.
Just logged in yesterday on my 100. Saw plenty of people in town. World boss group was instant full. Saw people while doing the season 3 outdoor content.
You forget d4 layers are like 20 people max. Plenty of times you may never see someone.
Also the casual players make up the majority of the player base of all games. And d4 has much more casual players than Poe and LE. We just never hear about them because they donât go on forums, follow streams, or interact with the players who are vocal about things.
This is actually not true. Casuals come and go. They might play 2h a day for a week and then be gone for a full week or a month. Itâs the hardcore players that usually make up the majority of the playerbase as can be seen in PoE where there is a large drop in numbers after 1 month, which is when the hardcore players already completed all their goals. The casuals keep playing.
You actually have it backwards.
The hardcore players are the ones who continue to keep playing the game even after the initial launch. Take LE for example. It peaked over 200k concurrent players. The casuals are the majority who come in to test out the game and then either get bored or feel they got what they wanted out of it and move on to something else or come back later. The hardcore players are the ones who stick around and keep playing it after the initial hype dies down. LEâs player base is already down to 30k or so. Most of them were casuals who left and were there just to try it out.
But thatâs my point. Casuals make up a majority of the player base. Take world of Warcraft for example. It recently came out they are around 7 million subscribers. If you look at the amount of guilds who have cleared the recent mythic raid itâs like 1-2% of the overall player base.
Casuals always make up the majority of the player base. Itâs one of the reasons why Diablo 3 and 4 have sold so many copies. Because they cater the game to more of the casual audience. You will always make more money because there are so much more casual players.
Hardcore players are not playing LE right now and there is few reasons. One of them - there is no high end content. they farmed their 4k corruption 2 weeks ago. Simply nothing to do here. And also Blizzard sold so many copies because Diablo is a legend.
Having played in a clan in PoE for a few years, I can say that thatâs not the case. Hardcore players get uber builds in a day, farm mechanics, might make another build or 2, change to a mirror build, farm some more and are done in a month. Then they skip to another game and wait for the next season.
Casual players are, by definition, slower. After a month theyâre mostly still farming the start of endgame. Theyâre the ones that stick longest because they take longer to reach their goals.
Thatâs what Iâve seen in PoE for many years. Also why standard (which is composed almost exclusively of casuals) are less than 20% of the community.
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I barely touched D4 but I still follow up on it. However, I still play diablo 2 private server, itâs what shouldve been the future of the franchise imo⌠Go check it out , PD2.
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