Well, they need to fix that glaring oversight. 
Well I am quite disappointed to hear that. Given how long it is taking to add a single level, I don’t know that I have the patience. I mean I can grind with the best of them but this seems way over the top to me.
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I don’t think it’s an oversight. There is just no modifers for it. Since the cooldown recovery can only appear as a “rare enemies” modifer.
The exp display is a bit misleading sometimes.
When you reach a certain levle threshold, your skilsl start to gain exp more quickly again.
Don’t watch the exp, just play and iwll will eventually unlock your lvl 20 skills.
Also this change was made, because you can now get +1 to skill X very very easily or even +2 with a T5 affix.
The overall progression: Player Level, Skill Level, Blessings got stretched out, but we are significantly stronger now.
Before you finisehd your “main progression” (getting skills to lvl 20) by the time you beat the 2nd or 3rd timeline, which felt bad, because it was too early.
I found it interesting that there is a cycle that seems to exist regarding MoF bosses. A new player gets to the boss and says its too hard , and several experienced players come and defend the system, saying thats not true, that the bosses are really too simple, that you just need to put the time and you’ll get them.
I simply think that having more chances (something like PoE portals) on bosses could be a nice compromise, making the progress a little less harsh for newer characters or players. Maybe once you get to the empowered versions you could get less portals , and some of the harder ones have only 1 “portal” , that way players can learn at their own pace. You can even decrease the rewards per portal used , making players try to do it right and not zerg bosses.
I love the LE community and its discussions, and like how for a game that has not even release there are many passionate players here, but I think one of the dangers of an extended EA with few players is that most of the opinions developers are getting are from a group of already invested fans.
I hope this game is a huge success, but for that it needs to cater to a wider audience.
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This does sound very negative and if there are “sides”. We are all here together to give our personaly feedback and we all try to make this game the best it can be.
Also the majority of people never say that the bosses are “too simple”. Most of the experienced player just assure the unexperienced players that they will learn to fight the boss. It’s a learning curve.
I am pretty neutral on the idea of giving the player multiple tries to kill the boss.
The only thing i would want, if the player dies, the boss get’s healed to 100% again and all mechanics reset, so you have to fight the boss completely “fresh” everytime you fail.
That’s part of the devs job, to “seperate” feedback from different type of players.
And here comes the danger. By cater to a “wider” audience, you might alienate other player, that liked the game, because it was not catered towards the “broader” player.
We already have plenty of games that are cater to an extremely wide audience.
Certainly not the feeling i got while clearing every Timeline before patch. Especially last boss which has like two relevant mechanics and gives you plenty of time to step away from a big ass telegraphed circle (which also is a mechanic of every dragon in this game starting in Campaign). You could shuffle the bosses between timelines and shuffle lvl of timelines as well and i would not be able to tell if this is ‘‘higher’’ timeline boss - hence more complicated mechanically. For sure i never got the feeling about quicker reaction being required as i was climbing up the Monolith system.
Also can i just point out that last boss of campaign actually has more mechanics than most Monolith bosses - pretty distinct phase two that requires you to do something different and well it is very easy to actually die on this boss (especially with 0 resistance to its respective element). For sure Lagon is harder than Abomination imo.
Hard disagree. There are fewer defenses to build in LE. Those that are here to build though - very similar to PoE defenses. You have Block that reigned supreme pre patch, Armor, Dodge, Ward. I do not want to get technical with formulas etc - but for the average player and for purpose of normal gameplay - they do more or less exactly the same as Block, Armor, Evasion, Energy Shield from PoE. Energy Shield alone has more depth than all LE Defense system combined. Which is fine - there is only so much you can with defenses in this genre. And yes I understand Resistances in LE do not punish you as much as resists in PoE or other arpgs. But you made it sound like I danced masterfully around every telegraphed attack from Abomination hence if you know how - you can do the boss ‘‘naked’’. That is absolutely not what happened. I was getting hit constantly.
Imo if you have no resistances, no block, 0 vitality on gear, meaningless 10% armor just from the gear you have to wear, meaningless 10% dodge which again is naturally on gear, no blind or some sort of invulnerability and all your passives are pumped into offense - that is a definition of a glass cannon. Oh and you dual wield on top of all that so even more damage taken. Yet i could get hit all the time and complete the fight no problem. Why? Damage taken is just too little. You leech all lost hp back within 2 seconds or just potion and wait for more potion charges (which i am not sure how that exactly works).
Had no idea about this. Probably should be mentioned somewhere in the game. Or maybe it is and i missed it idk? For a player like myself in this stage of the game development I would not clear Monoliths just for a chance at different blessings. And well my entire issue is that the game is too easy atm - it does not test you and does not require perfect or even good gear. So running Monoliths that i already completed just for possible gear upgrades is not something i would do either. Because the average gear i collected on the way - seem to be just fine for clearing almost everything.
And about targeting bosses for unique drops - i feel like unique drop rate is very generous. This certainly would not work as main incentive in the seasonal format which i believe LE will be.
I strongly believe entire system would be better off if you had to fill the bar of some sort by killing trash mobs - and only then boss at the end could spawn.
It works in D3. It works in Wolcen.
It would fix the exp issues - so i wouldnt be always -10 lvls under Monolith lvl. It would make it so I dont feel it’s a waste of time to kill ANY trash mob that is not on the way (right now it is waste of time). This applies when trying to spawn Quest Echo and complete the Timeline to unlock another Timeline and get a blessing. Which is what most people will be doing once game releases. And that also is fundamental function of entire Monolith system.
I agree that the last boss of pre 0.8.1 (Emporer Of Corpses) is a huge let down, because he has the most deadly, but also the fewest mechanics.
It does not feel like a “advanced” fight.
I personally think the “hardest boss” from a mechanical standpoint is Void Rahyeh (The Void Bird from The Black Sun Timeline). His mechanics are quiet punishing if you don’t know them at first.
And some of them require pretty precise movement (Most notebly the “Cake Slices” and raining meteors)
I also agree that Lagon is harder than Abomination. I already suggeested this a cuple of times, i would want Lagon in MoF to be slightly different (and harder) than the story version.
But the Story version might need some tweaks, because the difficulty gap between Lagon and Abomination is just not right. Maybe tweak Story Lagon a bit and on top fo that make abomination slightly stronger.
I agree that defenses are similar, some nuances are just different.
But if you take all possible defence routes, PoE And LE have roughly the same amount of possibilities. Of course PoE already has very established and advanced things, with some crazy keystones or uniques. But i am sure LE will come to this point to.
But the base mechanics offer pretty much the same depths.
I am not sure if we playing the same game. Sure leech is pretty powerful, but with your described defense setup there is more than 1 ability from Abomination that will One-Shot you.
They changed that on some of the older patches, but eah it does not ahve very clear explanations avaialble ingame.
The MoF Game Guide should definitely explain this and you should get some more prominent turotial pop-ups when engaging with the MoF systme the first time.
Just to build on this. The loot that you get additionally from clearing a great bunch of the echo (you don’t need to completely clear it, just kill literally everymob you encoutner, without backtracking) will significantly boost the loost of the chest, especially at high echo counts (like 20, 30+).
The loot will literally explode of the chest over the course of several seconds. Even with a pretty strict filter you will have a couple of items in those chest usually.
Yes, since the bosses drop 1 of their unqieus guranteed. it is prety generous, but also some of their uniques only drop in their empwoered version. Also the different uniques have different drop weightings, which means you literally need to farm them a dozen times sometimes, which takes some time, when playing mpowered. But that is ok.
Generally LE values the time a player invest into certain things way more than PoE.
PoE’s endgame grind is on a completey other level. In LE you can achieve alot of stuff with dedicated farming within a few days, which is fine.
We just need more endgame modes and more timeslines etc. So you can’t literally “finish/achieve” everythign within a few days, but you need to focus on what oyu want to du. But the thing you want from given content is within reasonable “reach”.
My experience was it’s not enough. I’m fairly sure I had around that much MS, but I was also usually slowed. Also the boss animations on a lot of attacks are very clunky, it skips the transition between where it currently is and the starting channel, so for this boss it could be doing a physical attack then suddenly teleport animation to channelling.
Due to being in melee, and using Erasing Strike which has a big time commitment when you use it, there were times when I might have just pressed ES and it started channelling, which means I lost a second from recovering from ES, on top of being slowed, and having to run almost the maximum distance. As I said I also tried to predict the move coming and start moving early and still not make it out in time. I was absolutely not trying to spend more time dpsing, in fact the opposite.
This could all happen multiple times in the boss fight so even if I managed to get out once or twice I could still die on the next time. The thing is it’s not a hard mechanic, or hard to see, but you still died for reasons like above. This isn’t fun or interesting gameplay.
On the other hand, I just did Heorot in The Age of Winter for the first time and that was imo a very fun fight. Lots of mechanics and things to keep track of, but I didn’t feel like I had to change my build because of a silly mechanic. I one shot that boss, and I wouldn’t say it was super easy but also not extremely hard either.
I also one shot empowered Rahyeh. I’m not mentioning this as some sort of brag but to illustrate that I am skilled enough to do this and emphasize what I said about Emperor of Corpses.
I agree its a risk both ways , try to cater to everyone and you might end catering to no one. Right now (still in EA i know) there are few options and things are too binary, I just hope they find a way to expand their choices without alienating the current base.
Its possible to cater to different groups and some games do it better than others , having something for casual , intermediate and hardcore players , lets hope they find a good balance.
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I think obviously similar games are going to be compared, and LE is clearly influenced by PoE. But let’s also remember how long PoE has been out to establish all their end game content and bosses. Were any of these in the game at release or pre-release?
Labyrinth and Ascendancy classes were introduced in Version 2.2.0, over 2 years after release. Sirius and the Atlas two patches after that. A vast majority of the deep systems people praise PoE for took many years after release to develop and even longer to refine.
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Did you had “enemy slow on hit” or “enemy chill on hit”, since this boss has alot of small adds, they usualy stack fairly high if you can’t kill them before they hit you.
The issue, with your Erasing Strike is understandable, but thats also in the players hand, you could go mroe attack speed (if you didn’t choose the node “Rythm of the Void”, which makes ES not scale with attack speed) or you could try to get chill and/or time rot on hit, so you slow the bosses animation down.
EDIT: Just to make clear. I agree that 20-30% MS is not sufficent for this boss, without any slow down fo the boss or speed bost for your self.
It might be technicall possible, but it justmakes the room for error very very small
Agree and that is why you provide options for players. If you’re only going to cater to those that want it difficult you’re going to have a hard time paying the bills.
I think maybe the first time I had “enemy slow”, before I had seen the encounter. But I made sure not to take any of them after that. I think there is a slow mechanic in the encounter anyway? I’m sure I made sure to have none of those modifiers and was still getting slowed.
Yes, his roar does give oyu 3 stacks fo slow, but he usually deos not cast them directly after each other (except for the very start, when you pull the boss)
But it did not. I wanted it to be hard. I wanted it to kick my ass. To feel like i should go back to finishing campaign first. Like i do not belong there. Thats why it was so disappointing.
Leech is absolutely bonkers and is a sole reason why it’s possible to completely ignore any other defense. Also the sole reason why I could complete the fight at all despite failing miserably and not avoiding dodgeable abilities.
After patch I decided to try Blademaster for the first time. I was excited about the whole theme of evasion, blinding smoke clouds, nimbleness and all that. I checked the passive tree and couldn’t wait for Dusk Shrouds, Silver Shrouds - it all sounded so cool. Today i am lvl 55 on my way to kill Lagon. And I already know the best way to play Blademaster is just like any of my other Mastery classes.
Get enough HP so you do not get 1 shotted, completely ignore armor, dodge, block and any other defense the game has. Get some Leech. There - with high enough dmg (which is easy to do since you do not need to care about anything else) you will pretty much not die in 95% scenarios.
So I am lvl 55 with 950 hp. Defense of the character looks like this: I stand still in the middle of the pack and take my hands away from the keyboard. After few seconds 80% of hp is gone. I Shift once through the pack. Boom = full hp.
My Leech is 1% from Blademaster passive tree. But 1% is enough when you hit several targets for 10k each. There is else some other stuff on my gear like gloves that give 10 hp on kill and amulet that gives 15 hp on crit. Shift is talented in Shadow Cascade on hit + some attack node on top of the tree skill. But ye every 3 seconds i can heal for 700+hp and it will continue to scale as my hp gets higher.
This takes away ALOT of fun. There is PLENTY of passives, ability nodes and effects that are about sustain and healing. All of them go out of the window with how the game currently works.
Why would I care about healing 5 hp on Glancing Blows? 15 hp on Block? 5 hp on hit which requires me to allocate ability point into it (which almost always competes with 5-8% More dmg node for this ability). Shit - there are straight up healing spells that nobody ever takes. Primalist heals for 100 and it only scales with healing effectiveness and costs mana. Paladin has tons of stuff connected to healing. Uhmmm why - just get 1% leech, hit for 50k and get 80% hp back on any build.
Of all Masteries i got through at least few Monoliths - this only didn’t hold for Spellblade. But for all the wrong reasons. That Mastery is just on another level of broken than Leech and has Ward coming out from everything they do. To the point you never even see your HP pool getting depleted. Since it is covered by thousands of Ward all the time which you just replenish effortessly.
I won’t disagree that leech is very strong.
But my experience with the game is compeltely different.
Also your appraoch seems really counter synergistic. Going leech with just health as defense is probably one of the worst defense combinations you can take.
Also 1% leech is not enough to heal yourself against some tougher enemies and bosses, if they don’t have adds.
Don’t get me wrong, i don’t say you are incorrect, but my experience with the game is entirely differnet… like completely.
I never succeded with a build by just stacking hp and get soem minor leech.
But well this is going way off-topic anyway.
If you feel like leech or defenses are not in a good palce you should maybe create a new thread and i happily discuss it more detailed there.
But you are not competing with PoE at launch, you are competing with PoE in its current state, what players expected from a game in 2013 (when PoE was launched) is not what they expect from a game today.
Does a game have years to refine if they don’t have a big following? Take Wolcen , they might get it right someday, but its most probable they simply missed their oppportunity
You are right. That’s why we are here, having these discussions. I just think people need to keep that in mind because some of the way things are worded, people expect it to be at the level of PoE already. We are still in beta/EA and, admittedly even though I have been here only a short time, I have looked into the past of this game a bit. I can see a huge potential and that’s why I’m here giving my time and input.
I think a lot of players here have played (or still play) PoE a lot. Why then, are we here? PoE is obviously doing something to cause these players to look elsewhere. For me it’s become too bloated and overly complicated in unfun ways.
I wouldn’t say LE is at the level to seriously compete yet, but I also wouldn’t say it can’t get there either.
Health stacking with leech is synergistic though. It has been the meta for many years in PoE for example. When Leech was instant. I understand in LE leech is spread over 3 seconds but it does not feel that way. When you can replenish/outsustain every hit you just took due to larger than normal health pool - thats absolutely legitimate defense.
Also about 1% not being enough - my point was to demonstrate just how little it takes to replenish 700+hp in one button press (which also happens to be probably best movement ability in the entire game) compared to other means of healing/sustain in the game. Obviously you can put 4 more passives for 5% leech. Some classes got like 10% leech just from their mastery tree. Plenty of abilities got their own leech in their respective tree. And i think leech as affix is extremely easy to get as well on relics/gloves/weapons.
But yes I do not want to derail this topic - even though it indirectly is connected. You seem to know some boss abilities by name and know what they do exactly. This attacks puts a debuff on you, that ability slows etc. See i never felt like I needed to learn that. Why? Because I could play sloppy and leech would carry me hard. Biggest offender is that it’s the case on every archetype besides perhaps Minion builds.
I highly sugest you at least try out the new empowered timelines. Even though the old bosses didn’t change, you definitely need to approach them differently.
Also the new bosses are really fun.
At the new difficulty level of the empowered timelines, you certainly need to pay attention to some mechanics. (There are still mechanics you can and want to facetank, once you invested enough into defense).
Also on anotehr note related to your prvious comment about “just zooming through”.
If you do that on the new empwored timelines in higher echoes you get absolutely obliterated, once a half a dozen of packs run behind you. As soon as you wantto stand still and fight and all the mobs you pulled come from behind, that can get sticky very quickly.
The new empowered timelines definitely changed the way, how i play echoes. (usually i gathered up multiple packs and killed them all at once) with the new empowered timeliens i am a bit more mindful and try to kill every or every second pack, before running further.
And i really do like it.