When you mentioned level 100, you mean area level right? Empowered monoliths is when everything gets to 100 which is why i mentioned empowered, if it’s not then everything is lower level after all.
Wednesday or thursday assuming formating and re-installing goes without a hitch I’ll test again with my characters that can do level 100 content and check the FP on rare drops. Assuming it is still happening I’ll look on youtube for a tutorial on how to record stuff for you.
Other zones can be level 100 too. Like for example arena and dungeons.
Ah, right. i always forget those cause I never do them. xD
Remember when I said that if you thought it was a bug you should post your data to help get it fixed…
Corruption increases the area level so the lvl 90 monos with some corruption (not sure how much) would hit lvl 100.
Minions and dot build with lots of hits/sec cause LE to need to do lots of calculations on your cpu. What are your pc specs?
Right, but as I said at the time, I didn’t thought it was a bug therefore I didn’t thought to take screenshots of the gear drops I was getting (I certainly wouldn’t have thought to get a video since I don’t know how). I just tried to craft it and toss it away after I was done cause invariably I wasn’t able to craft items to any good tier.
Also true, but it’s still easier to just use a character already in empowered than trying to grab a character to bring it to high level monos just to try and increase the corruption. Besides, pre empowered there seems to be a limit in how much you can increase corruption but I don’t remember by how much. At least I remember on the void knight trying and every time I reached a certain value it would never give me the ability to increase, only to decrease.
I’ve never played dot but I played minions and it never caused chugging. I also started to have some heavy chugs this PoE season that I decided to give a try and before it was very rare to chug so I think it may really just need formating. As for my PC, it should be fairly good, let’s see.
Ryzen 7 5700G
GTX 1660Ti
16gb RAM
It’s capped at 50 in normal monos, perhaps you just hadn’t gone out far enough to get an increase. shrugs
Your cpu is a fair bit better than mine (Ryzen 5 3800X) which is the most important bit while I have a better gpue (2070 super) & more ram (32 gig) which shouldn’t have as much of an impact in the situations one is most likely to see chugging (that usually being where the cpu has to calculate lots of procs, such as if you have lots of minions applying lots of stacks of DoTs in an AoE on lots of mobs).
Your video card software has video capture built in. Use this to get a clip ShadowPlay: Record, Share Game Videos & Screenshots | NVIDIA It will even let you start taking the clip after you want to start recording it. Kinda like being able to go back in time.
True, corruption does increase the area level of Normal Timelines. However, the level 85 and 90 Timelines can only be increased by 5 levels when at 50 corruption. So level 95 is the highest level a Normal Timeline can reach.
All other Normal Timelines, level 80 and below, can be increased by 10 levels when at 50 corruption.
Oh, that’s cool. I’ll take a look at that after I format my PC on wednesday.
The conversation shifted a bit, but my 2 cents:
You ideally want to find a middle spot, where you do have many complex system that are rng dependent but the amount of control you have on your gamble is enough to spur you to roll the dice again and again. There should a finite amount of progress you can reach each day, for example shards could become a pity system, or you could have a pity roll of any kind linked to monolith progression.
But the most important part, IMHO, is that RNG makes each item feel unique.
Unlike mmorpgs or other games where you know what item you are getting for any given content, arpg have the potential of dropping a very strong item at any given moment, and you could possibly craft an item so strong that the majority of the playerbase will never be able to craft another.
There should be a balance there too, ofc. If there is a 0.00000000001% chance of crafting a silmaril with any given craft, but the other 99.999 % is chaff, people will get bored very early on and leave. But if you have a still decent chance to obtain something good with achievable effort, then people might be spurred to stick with the game and try to push as far as they can.
My 2 cents.
I 100% agree with the middle spot, enough complexity so the crafting system is not an item printer, but with a realistic enough chance that by “X” time and/or “Y” cost that I have invested into making it to the next upgrade. There has to be something to chase!
I mention complexity precisely because it pushes the bar further up, but doesn’t necessarily bring down the average player.
I like the coin example.
Let’s say you craft an item that has 2 possible outcomes: if you flip head you have a good item, if you flip tail you have a bad item.
Well, what do we have here?
Player A gets a good item first try.
Player B gets a good item in their third try.
Between 4 and 5 tries, the 95% of the players have a good item.
EXTREMELY EASY, right?
So let’s say you don’t flip a coin.
If you flip 10.
If you flip head 10 times, you have the perfect item.
If you flip tail 10 times, you have the worst item.
However, in between you have many, many results that are still desirable.
Of course the average will be that players will find items that only got 5 rolls out of 10, but since by grinding they can roll again and again, they can find, eventually, that 9/10 item that is just enough for them.
I’d say that at the moment , Last Epoch is near this second example, where it could probably benefit by a more complex system at the cost of pushing the ceiling up and lengthening the required grind.
Agreed! Finally someone else that is able to articulate it better than I can. There will always be outliers. I fractured a 99% success on a clean T15 (3-5’s) and attempted to add on the 4th affix. Mike even questioned it and ran some tests that confirmed I was just the 1%'er in a bad way on that chance. That conversation gave me the confidence that the dev team DOES KNOW what they are doing.
edit: @GiraffaGonfiabile Idk why this is responding to your post, I meant it as a general response for @N3cro
This is really quite a simple concept. If everything you want is given to you for free, it starts to quickly lose its luster.
There is RNG in crafting for the same reason that there are RNG mechanics in pretty much every game ever made. Being unable to predict what will happen or taking a chance is like a core fundamental part of playing a video game.
Imagine your favorite game of all time. I’ll use Zelda OOT as my example. Imagine Link wakes up in his house and is immediately given every single item in the game. The core gameplay is unchanged, right? It still has an amazing story, awesome temple and puzzle design, fun characters, and amazing music. The main difference is that now the meaning behind doing those things is just gone. Why do the Temples if they just give you items and heart pieces you’ve already unlocked? Why talk to any of the NPCs or do any of the fun side quests or mini games?
This is a slight exaggeration, but it serves my point: Every bit of progression in a game like this is designed for the player to make meaningful choices and take chances to progress their character. It needs to be RNG, because if progression is just “given”, why would you even bother playing, even if it’s just low/mid tier progression? How much faster would people see all the content and complete everything there is in the game if there are zero stepping stones, just a huge leap and you’re at the end? Think about the power curve of literally every ARPG ever made. There’s a reason you start out weak and slowly make your way to being stronger and stronger.
No game on earth can rely solely on the gameplay to carry it, it’s only a part of the recipe for a good game.
While I understand the points of both sides, I will disagree that having RNG only makes a good game. Personally I do not want complete removal of RNG. That doesn’t go with this kind of game/genre. However, LE current base system is too much like everything on the market. After playing the game and looking at all the mechanics “as is” everything about crafting and itemization is all RNG. LE is a game of endurance and it is not fun (your miles may vary). It fun for awhile and then at some point it is not and we all know it.
For example, RNG is simply gambling. With that said, there are two kind of gambling: Random Chance and Statics. Random chance is your slot machines and lotteries. Statics are your coin flips and card games. LE right now is a slot machine and I don’t find that personally entertaining. However monolith of fate allows for a itemization to be a game of chance. Outside of that its a slot machine and not fun (again miles may vary).
When playing solo self found this becomes even more clear. When everything is a game of chance as a player you are on a timer. When that time is up you realize that what your are doing is no longer worth it and just stop. Looking at the current runes everything has a cost with a slot machine reward. Rune of shatter destroys item random chance of getting what you need. Shards are a random game a chance. Everything has some unknown chance with it.
To even play the slot machine requires some kind of cost. So having a little bit of non-rng with a the same in game cost would just make a better game. I feel that we all get more out of playing Black Jack instead of some unknown ratio slot machine.
What I want is for runes to keep the rarity(chance to drop) but remove the crafting cost of lost FP (non-rng). For example Rune of Shatter is a slot machine and is fine. It’s fine because the cost is gold and is not very hard to get (low rarity). Rune of removal is a rarer rune and is hard to come by (RNG). By removing the randomness from the rune (non-rng) and keeping the FP cost (RNG) you still have to make meaningful decisions. This only works because LE shards have rarity and are not easy to get.
Even with monolith farming there no guarantee you will get the high value shards let alone shards that are for the class you are playing. Monolith of Fate is the best system in this genre period. Monolith is Black Jack/Poker. You know what the stakes are and the chance of getting what you want is tangible (at least I hope so). Dungeons are the same with unique drops. You might not get that 4LP item but at least you get a shot at a better one than you already have.
For generic crafting I would like to craft a white to a decent yellow since again shards have an RNG wall to overcome. Again I feel that the floor of itemization should be having the chance to make the item you need since Rune of Shaping is not easy to find and costs FP. I do not want T20 maxed yellow item just given. Perfect min/max item should keep that rare chance with a string of lucky rolls.
Hopefully I have cleared up my position in this discussion. I don’t want an item printer and this is not about getting what I want when I want it with no work. But there is a reason for not playing slot machines at a casino or paying twenty dollars for the Powerball.
You’re questioning the fundamentals of a game in general. Every single game has random elements, be it tabletop or digital. There’s not a single game in the world that does not rely on rng. Because it’s not possible to create a “game” without.
In addition, comparing LE to Black Jack or other casino games is so fundamentally wrong. Some people pretend that if they don’t get the item with 4x t5 affixes with the exact stats that want they “lost” the game.
But that is the fun part of a game. You play the exact same build a second time and get different gear with different stats. You have to adapt to this difference and also pick other stats on other items to balance your stats.
That’s the core gameplay loop. And if you don’t get hp on your belt, then maybe put it somewhere else until you find something. But not hitting the exact affixes on any item doesn’t prevent you from beating the game.
This adds replayability. Without the random elements of games, these would be boring as hell and not even being called games.
You could also go out and convince manufactureres to sell lawn mowers without blades for improving security so nobody ever gets cut anymore. But good luck with mowing your lawn then.
I’m really curious how a “game” would look like that you or like minded people would create while removing rng elements.
Some rng elements aren’t that bad but let’s see how much of a slot machine LE is…
That’s the short list of rng steps that need to be on your side. I would most likely remove some of them but it’s not up to me.
btw…
After having formated the PC and giving it a test, the items are no longer droping with the low amount of crafting potential anymore. While I do still notice a skew towards 22-26 at 100 corruption, I’ve had 30s and 40s too so I’d say the bug must have been some problem with the older instalation or more likely during some update at some point.
The slowdowns I was noticing was as I also anticipated a case of the PC needing a format, it’s now running smoothly.
Must have been…
I think I see a couple things being repeated here while ignoring certain factors.
1 is the idea that removing RNG from crafting (and even then you wouldn’t remove it entirely, just most of it) would remove replayability because everyone would instantly get what they want and would lose the reason to play further.
2 is that the RNG is not really that bad and that most people can get the gear they want relatively easily.
Let’s start with 2 then. Getting the right base with a good amount of already usable affixes and then still managing to get the other missing affixes to become what you need to net you JUST and I really have to emphasis the JUST part here, JUST to get a mere T20 is something that a casual player will play an entire league and NEVER archieve it, and I don’t mean the full gear, I mean even just one piece. So the idea that the crafting is in a good spot or needs to be even harder is a ridiculous notion, if anything crafting needs to be far, far more forgiving.
Now let’s tackle an almost fully deterministic crafting for a second like I’ve already said many times before. What happens if crafting potential is removed?
You could say rare items are not worth anything anymore. Let’s be real though, what game actually has rare items as any goal? You want purples or better in any game and indeed you have exalted items here.
Now what are you looking for? Well let’s say your build uses ward so you want ward boots. That immediatly excludes any other boots from the list pool (and generally speaking, with the exception of the belt you always want one base and one base only). On top of this you want these boots to also have an exalted modifier… Well, that’s already a hard find (and that is RNG) But even though this is already a harder find it’s actually harder, because you don’t want any exalted affix, at best you want 1 out of 2 affixes (because let’s be real, you don’t want the sufixes to be the exalted ones unless it’s maybe on the weapon and that’s still a very big maybe since usually you only wants the exalted suffixes on a weapon for a minion build that somehow doesn’t uses a unique weapon). Now we’re already on extremely hard to find boots but there’s more yet. You see, in reality you don’t really want 1 out of 2 possibilities, you want exactly the correct affix so now you narrowed down the chances to beyond extremely low chance, but let me continue. You also don’t want a T6 affix exalted, you want a T7. The level of RNG you are facing from this alone is already monstruous and this is the level of RNG you are facing for every single piece of item. You may get 1, maybe 2 pieces of gear but realistically, you won’t even finish a build.
Now because you like RNG so much, let’s pile more RNG here so you can feel even more fun from the RNG slot machine. You have now found your ward boots, they have a T7 intelligence modifier and may or may not have a second affix you want out of the 4 total affixes. It is unlikely you are filtering from more than base and the specific T7 affix you want at this point because then you go from unrealistic chances of finding to virtual impossibility. Well, now you need to get 3 extra affixes. You start with early attempts at runes of chaos in one affix to hope the RNG slot machine gives you the affix you want before you get to tier 5 and if you hit tier 5 without reaching it, well, now you need to roll on the RNG slot machine with a 25% chance to break the item and a 25% chance to remove what you want removed. If it removes one of the other 2 affixes you haven’t touched yet it’s not technically bad cause you don’t need them, but the more times you atempt to remove what you don’t want, the more likely you are to remove that exalted affix too. Only once all other 3 affixes have been successfully chaosed or removed and then manually added you have a single finished piece.
Explain to me how this is not an already ridiculous level of RNG. Also bear in mind that saying having a T20 is fine or having a T16 is fine. It isn’t. T20 is fine for an early state of completion. That is a you just barely started and this is what you need to start going into empowered monos to look for the actually cool gear.
Now let’s not forget that past this you also have attempts at making T26 items by trying to get an item with a T7, T4 and 3x T5.
Let’s not forget that past that you can still go up to either T28 or T30 depending on whether the item beneficts more for 4x T7 or 2xT7+T5+T4.
Let’s not forget looking for uniques with legendary potential and this is a huge level of RNG as well because normally you want at least 2 affixes you can move in, sometimes you need 3 or even 4 depending on the item base stats and the slot as well as whether the new legendary is a replacement for an exalted item or a replacement for a unique item.
To sum it up. You have already huge levels of RNG in trying to find the gear you want which still makes loot drops valuable, you’d just be moving up the items that are worth looking at from rare to exalted.
You still have RNG for the mid and higher end of crafting while leaving the lower end crafting 100% deterministic.
Because of both of these you’d still have huge levels of replayability. Replayabillity doesn’t comes from your build forming a different time each time you play but rather by the item drops themselves. The crafting is meant to have some level of RNG but it shouldn’t be too high, it should rarely ever be the stop gap. The stop gap is the amount of good finds which combined with the crafting increase the RNG by a bit (in an ideal world it would be by a bit, right now even if there was no crafting potential the RNG would still be insane but it would definitely help at the lower end.
Now, I’ll say the following. While my experience with the current game is not exactly what I’d describe fun especially with the current crafting system, I had a bug that was limiting the crafting potential I had on items. Assuming I can now find better items I can probably get better gear. How much better I’m not sure, but I am sure a T20 is still a pipe dream for a casual player like me.
To me this feels like the item progression still has no direction. There is no clear indication of what level of gear you should have any point nor there is a clear point where you are specifically hunting for the exalted items on the right bases and this is in my view a big issue that the game will have to face when being compared to its competition.