While I don’t doubt you got all of those after testing, this is completly different from my own experience.
For example, your absolute lowest rare item is 22 FP where for me it’s very common to get 21 and 20 FP, I’d say in fact those are actually the more representative FP average for me with 23 being the highest I ever found. Now I didn’t mentioned hundreds, i mentioned douzens which yes, it’s a small sample size, but you’d think that in several douzens at least 1 item would roll above 23 FP, especially since in your cases, 22 or 23 are literally the lowest you can find. However that is not my experience at all.
Now crafting may have it’s own nuances, I’m not saying it doesn’t. I’m saying that the way crafting is right now, me an a few other people have already said, getting items past T14 is a problem. That’s where we get stuck.
There are then 2 types of voices in this whole situation. one that says, this is a problem and here’s a possible solution like what I did. And the people who says, this is just fine, don’t touch it it. But if it was fine people wouldn’t complain nor would they be getting stuck.
Therefore these opinions which are not so much of opinions as they are facts cannot simply be summed up to flawed experience. Because if someone experiences a problem and nothing is done to address it, what do you think is going to happen? They quit the game, leave a bad review and tell everyone who asks their opinion of the game to not play because of the problems they had in their experience.
That is way having a good experience for everyone. Smoothing out all these edges that create really bad issues like a player feeling stuck and unable to progress are of vital importance to any game. It is not something that should be dismissed.
Oh man! If that’s true it’s definitely a bug! Rare items at level 100 shouldn’t be able to drop with less than 22FP. It would be a huge help to us if you could submit a bug report with a video showing it in game and note which OS you’re using. If you’re running any 3rd party tools or anything like that, it would be helpful to know.
We take the credibility of our systems pretty seriously, and would want to investigate if possible. Any info you can provide is hugely helpful.
I can’t really do any video right now. I don’t really know what software to use or how to be honest. Usually if I need to show something in real time I tend to stream on discord which isn’t really going to work here.
My OS is Windows 10 and if you need the rest of my PC specs I can look them up really quick too, but trying to test anything at corruption 100 now is actually impossible. The game is chugging really hard for me when I was trying to do a minion poison build and unless dot calculations might cause that, I figure that may be my PC as it hasn’t been formated in 3 years and when I did the void knight aura bomber it was running smoothly months ago. I’m going to be formating it wednesday and I can test after that with one of my older characters that is still already on empowered monoliths.
That being said if you say it’s not even possible to drop less than FP 22 on empowered monoliths that does makes a lot of sense as for why I wasn’t able to progress my gear. I may have hit a bug indeed.
Anyway, if you need the rest of my specs I can gather them, just tell me what you need to know, other than that I can probably test things wednesday or thursday after I format my PC and make sure everything is running smoothly.
When you mentioned level 100, you mean area level right? Empowered monoliths is when everything gets to 100 which is why i mentioned empowered, if it’s not then everything is lower level after all.
Wednesday or thursday assuming formating and re-installing goes without a hitch I’ll test again with my characters that can do level 100 content and check the FP on rare drops. Assuming it is still happening I’ll look on youtube for a tutorial on how to record stuff for you.
Right, but as I said at the time, I didn’t thought it was a bug therefore I didn’t thought to take screenshots of the gear drops I was getting (I certainly wouldn’t have thought to get a video since I don’t know how). I just tried to craft it and toss it away after I was done cause invariably I wasn’t able to craft items to any good tier.
Also true, but it’s still easier to just use a character already in empowered than trying to grab a character to bring it to high level monos just to try and increase the corruption. Besides, pre empowered there seems to be a limit in how much you can increase corruption but I don’t remember by how much. At least I remember on the void knight trying and every time I reached a certain value it would never give me the ability to increase, only to decrease.
I’ve never played dot but I played minions and it never caused chugging. I also started to have some heavy chugs this PoE season that I decided to give a try and before it was very rare to chug so I think it may really just need formating. As for my PC, it should be fairly good, let’s see.
Ryzen 7 5700G
GTX 1660Ti
16gb RAM
It’s capped at 50 in normal monos, perhaps you just hadn’t gone out far enough to get an increase. shrugs
Your cpu is a fair bit better than mine (Ryzen 5 3800X) which is the most important bit while I have a better gpue (2070 super) & more ram (32 gig) which shouldn’t have as much of an impact in the situations one is most likely to see chugging (that usually being where the cpu has to calculate lots of procs, such as if you have lots of minions applying lots of stacks of DoTs in an AoE on lots of mobs).
Your video card software has video capture built in. Use this to get a clip ShadowPlay: Record, Share Game Videos & Screenshots | NVIDIA It will even let you start taking the clip after you want to start recording it. Kinda like being able to go back in time.
True, corruption does increase the area level of Normal Timelines. However, the level 85 and 90 Timelines can only be increased by 5 levels when at 50 corruption. So level 95 is the highest level a Normal Timeline can reach.
All other Normal Timelines, level 80 and below, can be increased by 10 levels when at 50 corruption.
When crafting is fully determinstic, you lose all excitement when opening loot because you won’t search for upgrades anymore outside of the most efficient method that you will look up in 5 seconds on this forum or a 3rd party website.
When the loot is completely rng, or the currency is too scarce… well, you can look at the MASSIVE lesson in humilty that PoE just recently got to see why that’s bad too. Even efficient players don’t want to treat the game as a full time job. Even streamers for whom the game IS their job were miserable.
You ideally want to find a middle spot, where you do have many complex system that are rng dependent but the amount of control you have on your gamble is enough to spur you to roll the dice again and again. There should a finite amount of progress you can reach each day, for example shards could become a pity system, or you could have a pity roll of any kind linked to monolith progression.
But the most important part, IMHO, is that RNG makes each item feel unique.
Unlike mmorpgs or other games where you know what item you are getting for any given content, arpg have the potential of dropping a very strong item at any given moment, and you could possibly craft an item so strong that the majority of the playerbase will never be able to craft another.
There should be a balance there too, ofc. If there is a 0.00000000001% chance of crafting a silmaril with any given craft, but the other 99.999 % is chaff, people will get bored very early on and leave. But if you have a still decent chance to obtain something good with achievable effort, then people might be spurred to stick with the game and try to push as far as they can.
I 100% agree with the middle spot, enough complexity so the crafting system is not an item printer, but with a realistic enough chance that by “X” time and/or “Y” cost that I have invested into making it to the next upgrade. There has to be something to chase!
I mention complexity precisely because it pushes the bar further up, but doesn’t necessarily bring down the average player.
I like the coin example. Let’s say you craft an item that has 2 possible outcomes: if you flip head you have a good item, if you flip tail you have a bad item.
Well, what do we have here?
Player A gets a good item first try.
Player B gets a good item in their third try.
Between 4 and 5 tries, the 95% of the players have a good item.
EXTREMELY EASY, right?
So let’s say you don’t flip a coin.
If you flip 10.
If you flip head 10 times, you have the perfect item.
If you flip tail 10 times, you have the worst item.
However, in between you have many, many results that are still desirable.
Of course the average will be that players will find items that only got 5 rolls out of 10, but since by grinding they can roll again and again, they can find, eventually, that 9/10 item that is just enough for them.
I’d say that at the moment , Last Epoch is near this second example, where it could probably benefit by a more complex system at the cost of pushing the ceiling up and lengthening the required grind.
Agreed! Finally someone else that is able to articulate it better than I can. There will always be outliers. I fractured a 99% success on a clean T15 (3-5’s) and attempted to add on the 4th affix. Mike even questioned it and ran some tests that confirmed I was just the 1%'er in a bad way on that chance. That conversation gave me the confidence that the dev team DOES KNOW what they are doing.
edit: @GiraffaGonfiabile Idk why this is responding to your post, I meant it as a general response for @N3cro
This is really quite a simple concept. If everything you want is given to you for free, it starts to quickly lose its luster.
There is RNG in crafting for the same reason that there are RNG mechanics in pretty much every game ever made. Being unable to predict what will happen or taking a chance is like a core fundamental part of playing a video game.
Imagine your favorite game of all time. I’ll use Zelda OOT as my example. Imagine Link wakes up in his house and is immediately given every single item in the game. The core gameplay is unchanged, right? It still has an amazing story, awesome temple and puzzle design, fun characters, and amazing music. The main difference is that now the meaning behind doing those things is just gone. Why do the Temples if they just give you items and heart pieces you’ve already unlocked? Why talk to any of the NPCs or do any of the fun side quests or mini games?
This is a slight exaggeration, but it serves my point: Every bit of progression in a game like this is designed for the player to make meaningful choices and take chances to progress their character. It needs to be RNG, because if progression is just “given”, why would you even bother playing, even if it’s just low/mid tier progression? How much faster would people see all the content and complete everything there is in the game if there are zero stepping stones, just a huge leap and you’re at the end? Think about the power curve of literally every ARPG ever made. There’s a reason you start out weak and slowly make your way to being stronger and stronger.
No game on earth can rely solely on the gameplay to carry it, it’s only a part of the recipe for a good game.
While I understand the points of both sides, I will disagree that having RNG only makes a good game. Personally I do not want complete removal of RNG. That doesn’t go with this kind of game/genre. However, LE current base system is too much like everything on the market. After playing the game and looking at all the mechanics “as is” everything about crafting and itemization is all RNG. LE is a game of endurance and it is not fun (your miles may vary). It fun for awhile and then at some point it is not and we all know it.
For example, RNG is simply gambling. With that said, there are two kind of gambling: Random Chance and Statics. Random chance is your slot machines and lotteries. Statics are your coin flips and card games. LE right now is a slot machine and I don’t find that personally entertaining. However monolith of fate allows for a itemization to be a game of chance. Outside of that its a slot machine and not fun (again miles may vary).
When playing solo self found this becomes even more clear. When everything is a game of chance as a player you are on a timer. When that time is up you realize that what your are doing is no longer worth it and just stop. Looking at the current runes everything has a cost with a slot machine reward. Rune of shatter destroys item random chance of getting what you need. Shards are a random game a chance. Everything has some unknown chance with it.
To even play the slot machine requires some kind of cost. So having a little bit of non-rng with a the same in game cost would just make a better game. I feel that we all get more out of playing Black Jack instead of some unknown ratio slot machine.
What I want is for runes to keep the rarity(chance to drop) but remove the crafting cost of lost FP (non-rng). For example Rune of Shatter is a slot machine and is fine. It’s fine because the cost is gold and is not very hard to get (low rarity). Rune of removal is a rarer rune and is hard to come by (RNG). By removing the randomness from the rune (non-rng) and keeping the FP cost (RNG) you still have to make meaningful decisions. This only works because LE shards have rarity and are not easy to get.
Even with monolith farming there no guarantee you will get the high value shards let alone shards that are for the class you are playing. Monolith of Fate is the best system in this genre period. Monolith is Black Jack/Poker. You know what the stakes are and the chance of getting what you want is tangible (at least I hope so). Dungeons are the same with unique drops. You might not get that 4LP item but at least you get a shot at a better one than you already have.
For generic crafting I would like to craft a white to a decent yellow since again shards have an RNG wall to overcome. Again I feel that the floor of itemization should be having the chance to make the item you need since Rune of Shaping is not easy to find and costs FP. I do not want T20 maxed yellow item just given. Perfect min/max item should keep that rare chance with a string of lucky rolls.
Hopefully I have cleared up my position in this discussion. I don’t want an item printer and this is not about getting what I want when I want it with no work. But there is a reason for not playing slot machines at a casino or paying twenty dollars for the Powerball.
You’re questioning the fundamentals of a game in general. Every single game has random elements, be it tabletop or digital. There’s not a single game in the world that does not rely on rng. Because it’s not possible to create a “game” without.
In addition, comparing LE to Black Jack or other casino games is so fundamentally wrong. Some people pretend that if they don’t get the item with 4x t5 affixes with the exact stats that want they “lost” the game.
But that is the fun part of a game. You play the exact same build a second time and get different gear with different stats. You have to adapt to this difference and also pick other stats on other items to balance your stats.
That’s the core gameplay loop. And if you don’t get hp on your belt, then maybe put it somewhere else until you find something. But not hitting the exact affixes on any item doesn’t prevent you from beating the game.
This adds replayability. Without the random elements of games, these would be boring as hell and not even being called games.
You could also go out and convince manufactureres to sell lawn mowers without blades for improving security so nobody ever gets cut anymore. But good luck with mowing your lawn then.
I’m really curious how a “game” would look like that you or like minded people would create while removing rng elements.
