No, that went out the window the moment crafting became an option. Just because you like to define it as “supplementing” the item hunt, instead of “complementing” it, doesn’t change the fact crafting is now a huge part of the ARPG (and MMORPG) genre(s).
You really seem intent on dismissing any opinions that differ from your own as “wanting an item editor”. Do you just have that macro’d someplace to make it easier to respond?
Huh, must have skimmed over that bit. That explains a fair bit. That’s not even slightly a statistically significant sample.
Oh, the irony.
That’s fair enough, and the only way to balance it would be to have the materials cost increase with higher tiers. I’m not sure where I sit on that particular fence, I kinda like it, I kinda don’t.
And people with significantly more knowledge, skill & way less tin foil hattery have been telling you how to do it better you just don’t want to take their advice, so I don’t think it’s reasonable to complain (let alone give “advice”) if your response to others is to stick your fingers in your ears & go “Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala I can’t hear you”. But you do you…
They’d need want proper data, not anecdotal evidence, as I said. If you want to have someone pay attention to you & investigate (given they’re working on MP), you’ll need real facts not just your “feels”, feels are for feedback, not bugs. If you think stuff isn’t working as expected then that’s a bug, not feedback, feedback is for things that are working as intended (which is what you’re saying isn’t happening) but you don’t like.
So if you want to see some actual change, put your money where your mouth is & post your data in the bug section, otherwise it’s just screaming into the void.
You don’t. Like I said before, you just assume that T20 is the base items for when you start mapping (and even then you won’t have all the bases you want since you won’t have the level for them all). Full T22 is going to be archieved somewhere between 1 and 2 months of the league for the average player and after that there is inspirational items.
Besides this there are 2 considerations. First is the good and highly efficient players. Those players have everything by day 3. They already do it in PoE and other games, it would be foolish to believe that no matter the game it wouldn’t happen. In the case of those players it doesn’t really matters what you do anyway.
For the majority of the players however, things will already be slower because once multiplayer comes in and more important, leagues, everything wipes in a new league and so, as you are starting from 0 gear, even the amount of shards you will have is going to be a problem early on.
One more thing just as a side note. Prior to the crafting changes I never said that RNG should be removed from crafting. Back then I just said that crafting needed to improved by lowering the RNG a little bit, especially at the lower end of crafting. This is because back then there was only T23-28 as aspirational gear. You didn’t had much to look past T22 because it was very unrealistic to get an item above that. But then they introduced the new crafting with the abillity to lock one affix making it a lot more accessible (though hard) to craft a T26. You also had the legendary item crafting added. Because you had so much added to the top layer of crafting that is going to be hard to get but some of it still within relaistic realms of archievement, you now can have non RNG crafting (except for the special runes with RNG, just the crafting potential should be removed which is the worst of it).
You keep bringing this up regardless of how many times I’ve already said. I did that. I did it and it didn’t work for me. There is a difference between not accepting advice and saying I’ve already done that and it doesn’t works so I’ll say it one more time. The reason these advice works for you is not because you know better since as I already said. I tried it! The reason it works for you is because you play far more efficiently and run 3 maps in probably less time than I run one. You probably don’t even have 1/10th of the time I spend in between maps when I am checking stuff and vendoring stuff because like I said, I don’t play that efficiently nor does the casual player. We play to have fun, not to treat the game like a job. Also I realise that playing like this is not the same as treating the game like a job, but to me and to the casual player it is.
You realise that when I was still playing before I quit after being completly disapointed with both the state of minions and the item progression, I wasn’t exactly taking screenshots of every single item drop I got right? That is not something that you expect a normal person to do. You also don’t expect a person to taken douzen and douzens of screenshots just to prove a point especially since with the way people seem to be around here, the next answer would be that I’m just showing the bad ones I got. Because it seems that people are more keen to disprove and disagree with someone’s opinion or ideas when they are opposed to theirs rather than actually accept that when someone says, this is what is happening, it’s because it’s true.
Here’s the funny thing. I gain nothing with lying when I say that the current state of FP on item drops are what they are. The only thing that I am doing is at worst wasting my time to give feedback and at best helping address an issue.
Try as I might, I am unable to restrain myself from chipping into this conversation. I will touch on a few comments above caught my attention and which I felt are, based on my experience and 2000h of playing LE, incorrect assumptions or do not match which my own findings while testing LE.
As I believe this to be totally incorrect, I decided to run a statistically irrelevant test - I say irrelevant, because I only collected 450 rare items in 20 Echo runs and I dont consider this a mathematically adequate sample size. The person making the statement mentioned that they are unable to find higher FP items in a few hundred items so I figured I would collect a few more…
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| FP Average | 31 | 31 | 29 | 27 | 30 | 28 | 29 | 29 | 27 | 29 | 28 | 29 | 28 | 29 | 28 |
| Rare Item Count | 26 | 10 | 19 | 24 | 27 | 19 | 25 | 18 | 27 | 27 | 21 | 26 | 10 | 21 | 31 |
| Highest | 41 | 37 | 37 | 33 | 38 | 39 | 44 | 38 | 38 | 42 | 42 | 43 | 34 | 42 | 34 |
| Lowest | 22 | 23 | 23 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 23 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 23 | 22 | 22 |
| # 40+ | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| # 30-39 | 13 | 8 | 10 | 9 | 15 | 7 | 11 | 9 | 7 | 9 | 5 | 7 | 3 | 11 | 12 |
How this information was collected:
Observations:
After reading this statement and others that confirm what devs have said over and over again, I decided to run a few more runs - this time at 376 Corruption on empowered Monoliths with a lvl 100 char - using the same process as above.
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| FP Average | 29 | 27 | 27 | 29 | 29 |
| Rare Item Count | 21 | 18 | 32 | 18 | 23 |
| Highest | 37 | 34 | 34 | 44 | 43 |
| Lowest | 22 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 22 |
| # 40+ | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| # 30-39 | 10 | 4 | 10 | 6 | 10 |
Observations:
Conclusion - While the sample size is too small to be statistically relevant, its pretty obvious that there is no influence of corruption on FP.
Outtake - While no-one has to believe my test figures are authentic, I think people who I have interacted with over the years here would be inclinded to believe me when I say I am confident in the results and that they confirm what us veterans (@Llama8 et al and others in other threads) already know and the devs confirm.
While on the same topic of crafting, I belive that the views express by the same person I have quoted above are generally misguided.
Comments like the above simply indicate a total lack of understanding and flexibility when approaching crafting. There are MANY ways to craft in LE, but optimal crafting requires a varied approach and one that plays off the strengths and weaknesses of the current system. Crafting also has stages in LE, how you craft in early, mid and late game vary greatly… As does crafting for min/maxing purposes. The same approaches do not work effectively. For example, crafting a normal item to T15 or even T10 is unlikely to work. Trying to use deterministic crafting by manually adding affixes to empty slots doesnt work for more than one affix without using up most of the FP. Starting with good crafting bases (not item bases) also plays a significant role in crafting - you cannot start with an item of a total tier count of T8 (eg 4x T2 affixes) and expect it to get to T20 without a SIGNIFICANT amount of luck. Clever sequence use of the various runes & glyphs play a very important part of crafting and can affect the how successful a craft can be. Some of these interactions are subtle but very important.
Crafting could use a few tweaks here and there to specifically address some issues but generally most people find it very refreshing and superior to the previous iteration. New players from other arpgs are generally positive about it too - as are most of us veterans even though we are the ones that know where it needs work…
Opinions are opinions but sometimes opinions can be wrong because they are based on flawed experience.
While I don’t doubt you got all of those after testing, this is completly different from my own experience.
For example, your absolute lowest rare item is 22 FP where for me it’s very common to get 21 and 20 FP, I’d say in fact those are actually the more representative FP average for me with 23 being the highest I ever found. Now I didn’t mentioned hundreds, i mentioned douzens which yes, it’s a small sample size, but you’d think that in several douzens at least 1 item would roll above 23 FP, especially since in your cases, 22 or 23 are literally the lowest you can find. However that is not my experience at all.
Now crafting may have it’s own nuances, I’m not saying it doesn’t. I’m saying that the way crafting is right now, me an a few other people have already said, getting items past T14 is a problem. That’s where we get stuck.
There are then 2 types of voices in this whole situation. one that says, this is a problem and here’s a possible solution like what I did. And the people who says, this is just fine, don’t touch it it. But if it was fine people wouldn’t complain nor would they be getting stuck.
Therefore these opinions which are not so much of opinions as they are facts cannot simply be summed up to flawed experience. Because if someone experiences a problem and nothing is done to address it, what do you think is going to happen? They quit the game, leave a bad review and tell everyone who asks their opinion of the game to not play because of the problems they had in their experience.
That is way having a good experience for everyone. Smoothing out all these edges that create really bad issues like a player feeling stuck and unable to progress are of vital importance to any game. It is not something that should be dismissed.
Oh man! If that’s true it’s definitely a bug! Rare items at level 100 shouldn’t be able to drop with less than 22FP. It would be a huge help to us if you could submit a bug report with a video showing it in game and note which OS you’re using. If you’re running any 3rd party tools or anything like that, it would be helpful to know.
We take the credibility of our systems pretty seriously, and would want to investigate if possible. Any info you can provide is hugely helpful.
I can’t really do any video right now. I don’t really know what software to use or how to be honest. Usually if I need to show something in real time I tend to stream on discord which isn’t really going to work here.
My OS is Windows 10 and if you need the rest of my PC specs I can look them up really quick too, but trying to test anything at corruption 100 now is actually impossible. The game is chugging really hard for me when I was trying to do a minion poison build and unless dot calculations might cause that, I figure that may be my PC as it hasn’t been formated in 3 years and when I did the void knight aura bomber it was running smoothly months ago. I’m going to be formating it wednesday and I can test after that with one of my older characters that is still already on empowered monoliths.
That being said if you say it’s not even possible to drop less than FP 22 on empowered monoliths that does makes a lot of sense as for why I wasn’t able to progress my gear. I may have hit a bug indeed.
Anyway, if you need the rest of my specs I can gather them, just tell me what you need to know, other than that I can probably test things wednesday or thursday after I format my PC and make sure everything is running smoothly.
Empowered or not and corruption levels have no effect on it.
If you get to where you can get a video of it happening, I would be very interested to see it.
When you mentioned level 100, you mean area level right? Empowered monoliths is when everything gets to 100 which is why i mentioned empowered, if it’s not then everything is lower level after all.
Wednesday or thursday assuming formating and re-installing goes without a hitch I’ll test again with my characters that can do level 100 content and check the FP on rare drops. Assuming it is still happening I’ll look on youtube for a tutorial on how to record stuff for you.
Other zones can be level 100 too. Like for example arena and dungeons.
Ah, right. i always forget those cause I never do them. xD
Remember when I said that if you thought it was a bug you should post your data to help get it fixed…
Corruption increases the area level so the lvl 90 monos with some corruption (not sure how much) would hit lvl 100.
Minions and dot build with lots of hits/sec cause LE to need to do lots of calculations on your cpu. What are your pc specs?
Right, but as I said at the time, I didn’t thought it was a bug therefore I didn’t thought to take screenshots of the gear drops I was getting (I certainly wouldn’t have thought to get a video since I don’t know how). I just tried to craft it and toss it away after I was done cause invariably I wasn’t able to craft items to any good tier.
Also true, but it’s still easier to just use a character already in empowered than trying to grab a character to bring it to high level monos just to try and increase the corruption. Besides, pre empowered there seems to be a limit in how much you can increase corruption but I don’t remember by how much. At least I remember on the void knight trying and every time I reached a certain value it would never give me the ability to increase, only to decrease.
I’ve never played dot but I played minions and it never caused chugging. I also started to have some heavy chugs this PoE season that I decided to give a try and before it was very rare to chug so I think it may really just need formating. As for my PC, it should be fairly good, let’s see.
Ryzen 7 5700G
GTX 1660Ti
16gb RAM
It’s capped at 50 in normal monos, perhaps you just hadn’t gone out far enough to get an increase. shrugs
Your cpu is a fair bit better than mine (Ryzen 5 3800X) which is the most important bit while I have a better gpue (2070 super) & more ram (32 gig) which shouldn’t have as much of an impact in the situations one is most likely to see chugging (that usually being where the cpu has to calculate lots of procs, such as if you have lots of minions applying lots of stacks of DoTs in an AoE on lots of mobs).
Your video card software has video capture built in. Use this to get a clip ShadowPlay: Record, Share Game Videos & Screenshots | NVIDIA It will even let you start taking the clip after you want to start recording it. Kinda like being able to go back in time.
True, corruption does increase the area level of Normal Timelines. However, the level 85 and 90 Timelines can only be increased by 5 levels when at 50 corruption. So level 95 is the highest level a Normal Timeline can reach.
All other Normal Timelines, level 80 and below, can be increased by 10 levels when at 50 corruption.
Oh, that’s cool. I’ll take a look at that after I format my PC on wednesday.
The conversation shifted a bit, but my 2 cents:
You ideally want to find a middle spot, where you do have many complex system that are rng dependent but the amount of control you have on your gamble is enough to spur you to roll the dice again and again. There should a finite amount of progress you can reach each day, for example shards could become a pity system, or you could have a pity roll of any kind linked to monolith progression.
But the most important part, IMHO, is that RNG makes each item feel unique.
Unlike mmorpgs or other games where you know what item you are getting for any given content, arpg have the potential of dropping a very strong item at any given moment, and you could possibly craft an item so strong that the majority of the playerbase will never be able to craft another.
There should be a balance there too, ofc. If there is a 0.00000000001% chance of crafting a silmaril with any given craft, but the other 99.999 % is chaff, people will get bored very early on and leave. But if you have a still decent chance to obtain something good with achievable effort, then people might be spurred to stick with the game and try to push as far as they can.
My 2 cents.
I 100% agree with the middle spot, enough complexity so the crafting system is not an item printer, but with a realistic enough chance that by “X” time and/or “Y” cost that I have invested into making it to the next upgrade. There has to be something to chase!
I mention complexity precisely because it pushes the bar further up, but doesn’t necessarily bring down the average player.
I like the coin example.
Let’s say you craft an item that has 2 possible outcomes: if you flip head you have a good item, if you flip tail you have a bad item.
Well, what do we have here?
Player A gets a good item first try.
Player B gets a good item in their third try.
Between 4 and 5 tries, the 95% of the players have a good item.
EXTREMELY EASY, right?
So let’s say you don’t flip a coin.
If you flip 10.
If you flip head 10 times, you have the perfect item.
If you flip tail 10 times, you have the worst item.
However, in between you have many, many results that are still desirable.
Of course the average will be that players will find items that only got 5 rolls out of 10, but since by grinding they can roll again and again, they can find, eventually, that 9/10 item that is just enough for them.
I’d say that at the moment , Last Epoch is near this second example, where it could probably benefit by a more complex system at the cost of pushing the ceiling up and lengthening the required grind.