Is Assembled Abomination truly that weak?

I am in the campaign and I am partially blocked in chapter 9 (while facing Apophis minions). I’ll explain the partially in one minute, once I have said what I have right now. No spoilers as I am not done with what comes next :slight_smile:

I respec a few hours ago my skills as I wanted to go for a pure permanent minions builds. A bit like a Zoomancer from POE (yes, you can laugh but it is still my source of inspiration right now).

Which means my 5 skills with a tree are: Skeletons, Mage Skeletons, Bone Golem, Assemble Abomination and I use Bone Curse to normally weakened the big fights. To keep the abomination permanent, I selected the “Age of Undeath” perk and I such, I keep my total of skeletons under 6 (3 mages death knights, 1 warrior, 1 archer). Got one golem (was 2 before but I went with the ‘more threat’ path instead). I am planning with my next mage dot to take the Archmage perk and then use more archers (got the perk that limit warriors to 1). Haven’t selected the rogue type yet.

Have I made a mistake going for the abomination? Or is it my curse that do not scale well, even with 17 points in it? Got the armor shred, bleed and slow effect on it right now.

As I said, my goal was to have minions do my bidding while I move from pack to pack and with as little mouse clicking as possible (got a start of carpian tunnel) so using a curse a few times is fine but massively clicking is painful after a bit of gaming.

Looking for recommendation there. Should I just drop the abomination? Or change my curse for Spirit Plague? Or something else I just missed?

As for the “partially blocked”, after dying, I was retreating to the previous room, which was resetting the fights but was allowing me to resummon my army. I’ve finally beat it by respawning into the room and not using the abomination and not the curse (used the volatile zombies, without a tree).

This is why I am wondering if either I made mistakes into selecting skills that are not that good or it is into their perks itself that I made a mistake.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

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Seems I have the same issue with Majasa. Curse is way too weak but above all else, she does not drop any potions at all. If I get hit by 2 things in close succession, rip, as if I use a potion after the first, then I am out when phase 2 starts…

Damn…

Bone Curse is only helpful for utility purposes. I’d switch to dread shade as that will help out your minions. Not familliar with Abomination Builds but going for Zoomancer style is not going to work with it since Abom builds are built around that one minion as opposed to having an army + abom.

I’d recommend switching to Wraiths since it seems like you’re going for physical.

Melee/Bleed Necro Build
I used this to level until 95 and switched to another build.

Through their trees, are these two (wraiths ahdn the shades) permanent minions through some combinaison of perks or they will always be temporary summons?

As for the abomination, I used it because of the permanent option. I’ll take a look at your build later on and see what changes I want to do. Being still into the campaign at level 60, I do not have access to the end game gear yet.

I just got one rune of ascendance so I might at least try to get a better pair of boots. More speed could help in dodging the attacks.

Through their trees, are these two (wraiths and the shades) permanent minions through some combination of perks or they will always be temporary summons?

Wraiths can be permanent with Sequels of Avarice but they lose a lot of damage potential being limited to two. Dread Shade is more of a spell than a minion.

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Most people here are going to tell you “your build is wrong, you can’t do that” but I’m not going to tell you that because I do a very similar build and ANY build can work, if you do it right.

I use permanent mostly-melee, all-physical minions. I have a lvl 100 offline and a lvl ~75ish in core or standard or whatever they’re calling it, and now I’m also in act 9 at lvl 55 and going strong.

My lvl 100 and ~75 use Skeletons, Bone Curse, Golems, Wraiths, and Abomination. Like I said, physical melee. So no mages at all. They aren’t physical OR melee. No Dread Shade. It mainly just increases necrotic damage, which I don’t do, so no need for it. Like you, I like only clicking the curse, so that’s all I do.

Bone Curse is INSANE if you spec into the right nodes in the tree. 100% armor shred gives your enemies a very negative armor very quickly, and there’s a buff you can do as well giving your minions 50% MORE physical damage, multiplicative with all other sources. This is insane! I also get my 3 vanguards from this tree and an execute at 12% health (yes, this works on bosses too). And a short 1 second slow on enemies (and my own minions) but that’s mostly irrelevant.

You are going to have to tell me the way you have your abomination tree set up. I hope you summon as many skeletons and mages as you can before summoning him too. But only using 2 skeletons you are greatly limiting THEIR output, and THEIR ability to shred armor via Bone Curse.

There’s a node in the skeleton tree where you get half as many skeletons but they are bigger and stronger. So if you have 9, you get 5 (it rounds up). And if you get the +1 skeletal mage from the tree you can summon 5 skeletons and 4 mages so your abomination consumes 9 minions and you still get strong skeletons to use.

Trust me, this build works…you just have to do it the right way. So please show me what your abomination passives are and we’ll work on it.

My build on my 100 and ~75 has in total 14 PERMANENT minions, which is THE MOST you can have if you have an abomination, other than bone minions (from Transplant) which are super squishy and irrelevant. The 14 minions are: the Abomination, 3 Vanguards (from Bone Curse or passive tree even), 2 Wraiths, 2 Bone Golems, 1 Revenant (from the Acolyte passive tree but also needs Lich passive trees and certain uniques to be permanent, so ask if you’re curious but this reply is already long enough), 1 skeleton warrior, and 4 skeleton archers, the only non-melee.

But since skeleton rogues were buffed in patch 1.0, I swapped to them instead of archers. So now 100% melee. But I also got rid of bone golems because OMG I can’t stand the SOUND the make they are so ANNOYING. Also they do very little damage. They are mainly useful for buffing other minions but Transplant can do that to so for now I’m using Transplant instead but I’m not sure. Transplant buffs attack damage and golems buff armor. Meh.

I tried using the quieter golems that use blood magic or whatever but they heal you which is bad for the low-health build…

Anyway, so those 14 minions would be reduced by 2 because no golems so that’s 12 but I also don’t have the permanent revenant yet so only 11: Abomination, 2 Wraiths, 3 Vanguards, 1 Warrior, and 4 Rogues. I could do 2 Rogues and 2 Archers to have more variety for the Abomination but not sure if worth. Probably? Meh.

Anyway that’s my build, sorry my post is so long! Let me see your level 17 abomination tree and I’ll tell you what I think. But also let me know if you are consuming as MANY minions as you can (which SHOULD be 9 skeletons by now, since you are specced into them + your mages). But the bigger skeletons are a way to take advantage of only having 5 skeletons, and also make sure you don’t accidentally kill off your abomination. Abomination only loses 4 that way, but meh.

EDIT: Oh also, wraiths are very very strong, the permanent ones can get quite the buff. They might do more damage than the abomination. Them and the abomination are certainly the main 3 minions. But the others are very useful for picking off trash mobs, soaking up damage, and stacking them armor shred stacks!

Permanent wraiths are very strong, don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. Non-permanent wraiths require a lot of mana and a lot of button-mashing.

EDIT 2: Also you should make sure to get +minion melee damage and +minion spell damage on a 2handed weapon. There’s an affix that gives both of those, then you can get a 2nd affix that buffs melee and bow or spell and bow. I obviously use melee and bow which I suggest you do as that buffs abomination and physical melee wraiths if you plan to use those. So if you want those 2 specific suffixes, you will need a 2-handed axe. There’s a base type that also increases minion damage, and at lvl 64, there’s an even STRONGER base type but I don’t have that one yet as I’m only lvl 55. These suffixes and maybe even the axe base types are NEW so I don’t have experiences with them yet.

Also the permanent revenant, if you chose to get it and once you do, is also extremely stronger, maybe even stronger than a single wraith on its own. :slight_smile: But it basically requires a unique called Exsanguinous which is a super rare drop (I don’t have one yet) and 21 points in the Lich tree to make it permanent, but it’s totally worth it. This also unlocks nodes in the Lich tree which gives +2 INT! That’s 8% minion damage, 8% minion health, and lots of ward retention per point and you can put 8 points into it so I actually have 29 points in the Lich tree on my higher level older characters. :slight_smile:

EDIT 3: You can also use a 2-handed sword and something else like spear or staff or something but ONLY the axe has the good base types for it.

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Question about armor shred, is it 1 stack = 1 point of armor or 100 points of armor? I’ve tried to build into armor shred with multiple sources having at-least 100% shred chance yet Ive never seeing the stacks higher than 60.

How many stacks have you managed to get it to??

Using revenant + low life is interesting! I had no idea you could proc it easily with a low life build.

Thanks for sharing your ideas!

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1 stack is 100 points of armor shred. I can get well over 100 stacks, even over 200 I think (keep in mind it’s been a while since I played my old characters and I’m getting these passives last on Bone Curse so I don’t have them yet on my new character). There’s diminishing returns though. Keep in mind this is with 14 minions all attacking a single boss at once.

By proc it “easily”, I mean using a node in the Lich tree that requires 21 points :stuck_out_tongue: And some of the passives you have to take on the way there may be less-than-optimal, but at level 100 it’s no big deal because you run out of useful stuff in the Necro tree anyway and it unlocks the 2 INT nodes which are amazing.

The tooltip on revenant that says its cooldown is 15-seconds-or-whatever is also wrong (unless they changed either the tooltip or the way it functions in 1.0; like I said, don’t have it yet on my new character). The cooldown is actually only 10 seconds. It resummons itself LONG before it expires though and it basically never dies in 10 seconds.

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Here I was thinking I was only shredding 60 points of armor! :sweat_smile:

Yeah, i’m definitely going to try out the revenant since I specc’d out of Golem and went for permanent Wraiths for damage.

Just wasn’t sure if it would count being already at lowlife and taking a hit. (with low life / ward)

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No, it doesn’t “count”, you have to take hits to your health, not ward, IIRC. You need the Lich tree passive “Closing Wounds”, as far as I know, and that requires 21 points in the Lich tree. It 100% counts though.

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Ahhh time to experiment! Thank you :star_struck:

Good luck! The revenant also gets strong if you put 6 points into it (which requires 4 points before that) so yeah 31 total points dedicated to the revenant. Haha but I think it’s worth it.

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I’ll re-read that tomorow morning as you wrote a lot of good things to consider. But is there a “POB” way of sharing my skills, passives and gear with you or I just write them down here?

I know for a fact that I am missing a lot of things right now from my first read of your answer. For example, I am using a Wand + Shield so I am missing on a lot of damage. But again, don’t you die to more one-shot without a good blocking chance and effectiveness?

No, blocking is not needed on caster characters. Just get resistances and health and critical strike avoidance or bonus damage reduction and you’ll be good.

You could send a screenshot of your abomination’s tree. I don’t use LE’s “POB” but go to www.lastepochtools.com if you want to check it out.

I used a sceptre and tome before the 1.0 release (tome, not shield) but with the new added damage I think a 2 handed weapon is better because you can’t get that stat on your off hand and it’s better than minion damage, INT, and most certainly block chance.

Yeah your problem is your damage is probably just too low. You’re trying to be a tank when you shouldn’t be. :stuck_out_tongue:

Please dont give out wrong info, Dread phalanx is a trap, it gives a tiny bonus to damage at 5 and 7 minions and over that it is a minus to overall damage.

Range minion > melee minion
If you are wanting to have perm minions your best bet would be converting everything to fire since it is easier to get + to minion levels that way, get skele archers and mages add in some flame wraith and flame golem that should take you fairly far for minimal investment. focus on + minion fire damage and + minion damage, the golems are more of a minion buff and aggro magnet than damage. make absolutely sure you get dread shade as the devs have sadly balanced necro minions around that one ability, if you dont want to resummon then get the ability that makes it perm but can only cast one, make sure to just keep popping it on your archers or mages as they tend to stay as a group.

If you truly want to stay with the abom i would recommend looking up on Last Epoch Builds as some people came up with some very nice builds for it. Read up on them as it has a few tricks you need to do to make it really nice.

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Please don’t ASSume things when you clearly don’t know anything about what you’re talking about.

If you had read OP’s or even my post, you would know, you can only have 5 skeletons with a permanent abomination. 5 x 1.8 > 5 x 1.0.

at that point, again it is around a 5 ish% increase in damage for wasting a point and depending on what you are doing it is a net negative, as you lose armor shred and such. If you want to go maximum minions for the perm abom, go golem, and mages, you can even go with the single mage node (not a great node again) then go perm wraiths. Either way dont use the normal skele use mages as the range helps considerably. If you get lucky and get the golem chest armor then you can just use golems abom and 2 perm wraiths.

Dread shade is a must for any minion build, not using it is massively nerfing yourself. If you focus on having a single giant abom then its even worse not using it

It’s sad how terrible your read comprehension is. :frowning: I’d rather talk to a tree.

Please, leave the fighting to your minions :slight_smile:

As far as I am concerned, this is my first ever character on LE so I am aware I am probably far from being optimal (ever, not just first in 1.0)). The only thing I want to optimize on my first run is my fun, which is why I decided to NOT GO with a build guide (I did the same on POE to learn the base mecanics). Only thing I picked from a guide is a loot filter to get me started.

So, I went to the Last Epoch Tools and imported my save. Will be faster to show what I have: Necromancer, level 60 (Release / 1.0) - Last Epoch Build Planner

A few things to note: The main goal is to have permanent minions, even if it means having less DPS in total. To me, less spam click >>>> more damage. Not saying I do not want to click at all but I want to reduce it to a minimum.

Also, I made a few changes yesterday when I went with the abomination, mostly to stay under 6 skeletons. Of course, when I summon a new abomination, I starts by fully summon all my skeletons, which means right now 3 death knights mages and a bunch of regular skeletons (splitted between archers and warriors). So the abomination is built over my full potential but once summoned, I stays at 3 mages, 1 warrior and 1 archer.

I was planning with my next point to get the Lone Guardian (for skeleton) and also the Archmage (for the mages) so I would get one buffed of each and the rest would be archers. I also had 2 bone golems but I decided to tried the Fragments of the Fallen node (which I am not sure is a win for me). You can also see that my bone curse is doing a lot of things as well from armor shred to bleed to slow over a wide area (wide area means less clicking to cover everyone).

Overall, I do not mind respeccing or even switching skills for as long as it optimize my fun and do not bring massive clicking. This is why I am not using Volatile Zombies for example.

As well, I have been checking a bit for the other curses options, in case I decided to switch Bone Curse for something else and at first, I wanted something with the “less click” in mind so Spirit Plague was not really an option.

BUT, while checking the tree, I saw on the left side, there are “area of effect” nodes and this curse deals more damage per second than Bone Curse.

So, would it be a good idea for me to change my curse and train Spirit Plague instead of Bone Curse? With enough points, I could get the same slow and bleed effects than with Bone Curse but I would lose the ability to apply Armor Shred.