wow wow and wow 
i don’t really have a stake in this argument, but what i will say, is the most bot-proof barter system, is no barter system at all.
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True 
I mean, that’s true of all software. The most bot proof software is software that doesn’t exist.
That and $1 will get you a cup of coffee…
I do not have a stake either but this line is priceless in the context.
That in and of itself shows the intent. “Hoisting the petard onto the masses so they may suffer the misery I am in.” [Shakespeare]
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where are you buying your coffee? 1$ in my region is like, a shot of cheap gas station espresso at best.
also i’d still get more out of that than i would out of a convoluted and easily exploitable barter system that only benefits the people who profit from it. as i recall, you were the one advocating in the other post to make it so that only the most hardcore players get to level cap to make sure people always had something to do (if that wasn’t you, then i apologise for the confusion), and if every single other ARPG that tried to let players trade items hasn’t proven yet what a problem it is to player retention, then i’m afraid you don’t know what makes an ARPG good.
(edit: i just checked the other post, you were there, but you were the dad, so i apologise for the confusion, i won’t delete my post in case the context becomes important later, but just let it be said.)
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McDonalds. I never said “good coffee” …
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Whatever system EHG designs, it should be one about trading items between players, not real-world profit or even, IMHO, in-game profiteering. In my opinion, the best way to achieve that is to implement a system which:
- Emphasizes trade, not sales/currency
- Has enough security to catch the legit-player side of the illegal trades easily so they know they will lose their account if they do it. This means it’s not based on a manual review by a human (no WAY that works, too many players.) It has to be automated, and it has to be simple so that it doesn’t fall into the trap of complexity catching innocent players because they couldn’t get the coding right.
I would argue that isn’t even coffee…
what i was trying to communicate before i unfortunately misidentified you was: every time an ARPG adds a trading system between players (even if no real world currency is involved) it devolves to people finding a way to exploit that system with 3rd party software and bots, and for the people who actually use it as intended, it removes a lot of their incentive to play by allowing them to skip the core gameplay loop, being that you farm for the items that, in this system, you would just trade for instead.
like, this has been tested. (and by much bigger companies with way more resources)
Right, which is why I designed this one differently. Someone even tried to list one of the points as a flaw:
- You need to have an item in your inventory/stash that matches what the other player wants, otherwise, no deal.
When you introduce currency, this opens up the exploits. But in a pure barter system (item for item), you have reduced volume of trade, but the trades are pure (no way to exploit).
Again, the goal is to make it hard for a legit player to exploit. Meaning, they aren’t on a proxy, spoofing IP, etc. so once you catch them, they are banned (by IP) and can’t play again. Heck, even if you only account ban legit players, they have to cough up another $35 to play again, which works as incentive not to cheat for most players.
I think most companies are too paranoid to come down hard on the players, so they let that part slide, focus on the Bots/hackers/RMTs, and then fail because they don’t get the right security in place.
Players of ARPGs have this concept of Trade which they got from the games which come before it. If you read most of the opposition, it all revolves around “But I want my traded item NOW WHILE I HAVE THIS TOWN PORTAL OPEN SO I CAN RETURN TO THE MAP I’M ON!”
I mean, seriously, I get that “bid” auction houses are kinda bad, I hate them myself. But a system which is pretty quick (time-wise) but limited (you have to legitimately trade an item the other person actually wants) makes people apoplectic, threatening to quit the game over it. It’s hyperbole. Or, they are the kind of people the game shouldn’t cater to in the first place, and good riddance. Either way, win-win.
that sounds like an arbitrary side minigame then, like, an item that is worthless by it’s rolls will be worthless for most people, there’s something like 2.1 billion different stat combinations before affix tiers, so letting someone say “i want an item that has these 4 specific affixes all at t7 max roll” means that the trade will never go through, and setting the bar for anything below t6 is pointless because of the crafting system, like, sure it would work i guess, but nobody would ever bother to use this system which would require development time and resources.
they would still find a way, if anything, this would just encourage people to run 10 copies of the game with bots so they can pool all their best items to their actual play account using highly specific trade offers that nobody could possibly replicate without already having the item before hand.
the best way to avoid bots is to not implement systems that would benefit people for botting.
I think that a barter system would mostly be comprised of the following:
- 1 Unique item being offered for other Unique items (easy to complete such trades).
- Exalted items with only a single Affix or two Affixes, desiring other such items in trade.
- Special items, like Arena Keys, shards, glyphs, etc. wanting similar items (my +Level Stormcrows for your +Level Smite).
EHG said that going to kill things and get loot will be the best way to get top items, not the Bazaar. So, I think the idea of there being a system where you can find a T28 item (all T7s) with the 4 perfect affixes is already a fantasy.
i suppose limiting it to unique items would be fair, but again, farming bots for max drops and gear funneling.
still many tens of thousands of combinations, trades will never go through.
this would be a different version of the above issue, and would skew the value of runes of shattering over the top.
Any system has to balance functionality with security. WoW tried to make a system where it punished people for using real money or botting. All this led to was the cheaters stealing legit players accounts to abuse. This was a security measure that was implemented that ended up causing more harm than good.
Every little toggle you try to put into your “trade” system to add security reduces its usability by regular players. You can theoretically make a fully secure system, but it will have no usability at all.
Nothing in the game right now is so hard to get that a trade mechanic is necessary. I would rather there not be a trade system.
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tHIs iS RMt Pr0oF
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NEwEr sECurItY lKKE mMAc aDDarESS TraccInGg
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Sorry, I didn’t mean to use technical knowledge from my career that most gamers wouldn’t understand.
Let’s just say they can track the computer you use for LE (because their game client runs directly on the computer) and so have access to certain unique identifiers which the client can pass to the server. The server, in turn, can record them and if one of those are on a “banned” list that the server checks, you can’t play LE on that computer.
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Nah. Its nothing to do with security. Its just a child waffling about things they don’t understand then lying to create a weak impression that no-one believes that they understand anything when apparently English is a problem for them.
They understand perfectly well that you have no technical knowledge. You have a bunch of magic assumptions that betray your lack of technical knowledge.
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Well, maybe you don’t understand how MAC addresses work and how a game client installed on a PC can communicate it to the server which can then block it.
how are you going to block MAC addresses bro?
I dont really appreciate how some of these guys respond to you in this thread or other threads, but I gotta say, when is enough, enough? I respect the fact you want the system to be clean, but like another user said, this is a game made to entertain. Proxy blocking, MAC addy tracing…sounds a little too serious given the nature of the discussion.
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