I get that it sounds “too serious” to non-developers, but trust me, this is really basic stuff to a developer, especially ones at EHG who are coding up multiplayer right now. The level of technical knowledge they have to have to run a smooth client/server connection far exceeds the utterly basic ideas I have talked about here. Like, EHGs most junior dev could code up these things in a day. I wouldn’t be surprised if they already have done so, to be honest.
There are other points of consideration as well.
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All of these measures can be countered by someone determined enough, and RMTers definitely are.
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These kinds of measures risk unintentional harm to regular users.
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These kinds of measures will absolutely harm the game’s reputation and people’s willingness to buy it. We see a similar pattern with regard to games that have highly aggressive DRM.
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There may be legal considerations that such methods might risk running afoul of.
3 Likes
Well, as I said, I think the better strategy is to target legit players, not the companies that run the RMT. As you said, they have money and technical resources players don’t have.
Your 3rd point is valid, though, in that it would definitely be bad to accidentally ban honest players unintentionally. At some point, they need to allow human communication with their support department, and that’s a bottleneck for sure given how many players typically play ARPGs.
But, with all things technical, you need to be Agile. Put out a basic version of security, and tighten it up as you go along until you reach the right level.
I definitely think the most basic, fundamental, out-of-the-box security should include a relational table which stores all MAC addresses and IP addresses which connect to 1 given game account, and allow the banning of an account. That, in turn, would prevent new accounts from those same MAC/IP addresses from connecting. Can that be end-run? Sure, by some people. Taking out the known proxy servers makes it one step harder.
Also, lets remember, that while RMT companies don’t care a whit about losing an account, players do. Those were their characters, with all that rare gear. Gone. Kaput.
Sure, go ahead and make a new account and outwit the security of your ban. And start over at level 1. And if they catch you RMT’ing again, that one gets banned and you start over again.
That is what will stop bots and RMT - not stopping the RMT company - stopping players from risking their accounts.
I’ve really had enough of you trying to wave this around like it shuts down all criticism of your shockingly shallow idea.
With some exceptions, there are about three kinds of people who have been in dev for as long as you (ostensibly) have:
- People who have to be kept around because they are the only ones left to know anything about legacy systems in ancient languages that are too fragile for upgrades to be either safe, practical, or sellable to upper management.
- People who have climbed the ladder enough that the only skills they’ve used or needed for a very long time are delegation and/or the ability to leverage nepotism.
- The vanishingly small number of actual geniuses who actively keep up with new tech in a meaningful way.
The lack of depth in both your original suggestion and continuing defense thereof, as well as a total absence of humility, make it pretty clear that you aren’t #3. Based on how you talk to people who point out the many, many places where you’re wrong, my guess is #2. As someone who has been a developer for a little over 10 years, it’s intensely offensive to me when dinosaurs try to wave their genitals around like being middle management is impressive and makes you unassailable.
Your idea is bad and you’re the only one who doesn’t know it. If you can’t get over it, you need to at least knock off being this kind of jerk to the people who understand the realities of this better than you do. It’s embarrassing to those of us who take being a developer seriously.
5 Likes
I’m kinda surprised that not everyone in this thread thinks that the devs won’t close the thread and potentially ban people for being dicks to each other. It’s like that line in Dirty Harry, have you crossed their line? How many moderators are awake that might think you have? Do you feel lucky punk? Go ahead, make their day…
I hope the devs do more of the latter than the former.
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Then you have to know that MAC address is used by switches for switching. When you leave VLAN or communication jump to another router then IP address is used for routing and MAC address isn´t transimited.
Simple connection for small network:
Access switch → core switch → router or firewall → ISP
- Access switch for users/printers/servers/etc - there is MAC address table for connected devices in each VLAN
- Core switch - there will be most propably L3 inter-VLAN routing; this switch have arp table with IPs versus MACs
- Router/firewall - there will be route with information that local subnets x.x.x.x/x are on core switch and default route pointing to ISP; this device will know probably only two MACs - one for port of connceted core switch and second of port of connected ISP device
- ISP device - this device know only MAC address of your connected router/firewall port and what is is your public IP/subnet
I hope that you stop using MAC address as security possibility in internet enviroment. There are examples why you can´t automaticly and easy use IP bans
- Small local ISPs in villages/small towns which have limited range of public IPs so most conneted home users from one district are behind NAT and will be identified by one IP address or few IP addressess by internet services
- Mobile/cell phone BTS towers had also one public IP for all (hunderts or thousands) connected end users → NAT
- Student hostel/college on universities use NAT and proxies for students in rooms
- Cloud game streaming services are more popular these times cause of overpriced and short in supply chain for PC HW
This is my last post in this threed. I have doubts about his technical skills as BroncoCollider
2 Likes
I fully anticipate they will, but since I already had the OP blocked, there was no need to be a dick to him here. I’m more just responding to other users here. 
WAIT UP.
We can block people???
Maybe they already have?
Maybe they blocked my MAC address? I remember this guy with 32 years experience leading devops in a Fortune 500 company and he said that it would only take a junior dev a few minutes to do it?
But how will I know if I’ve been blocked? Something something a tree falling in a forest
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You are forgetting that you have to install the LE Game client on your machine, and that client sends encrypted packets to the server. The client can embed all of your machines MAC addresses (lan, wifi, whatever) into the packet upon Login, and the server can then store them all against your account. That way, when they ban your account, it bans all of the MAC addresses which you ever used to connect to LE with that account.
There are also other identifiers they could use, like UUID, the serial number from connected harddrives or even the windows MachineGuid. I just used MAC address as the easiest one, since most players aren’t going to know how to go into Device Manager and change them.
In fact, for most normal players (not RMT companies), just banning the account is going to be good enough, because they have to buy another copy of the game and lose all their characters and gear they were RMTing for in the first place.
But feel free to ignore that (I’ve only posted it at least 3 times).
Banning the normal players rather than the bot accounts is quite a dick move though.
Why is it a dick move to ban a player who violates your TOS/EULA ? I mean, literally, it says they can ban you for RMT. Banning is 100% proper.
And as I said, RMT companies will not bother with your game if no players buy from them for fear of losing their account. You come down hard on the players (and by Hard I mean literally just enforce your EULA they agreed to) and they won’t buy, and the bots go away.
It feels like locking up the drug adicts while letting the dealers go free. Just doesn’t feel right (IMO). I understand the reasoning behind it.
I mean, I agree with you. But, at the same time, this is a voluntary agreement the player made with the company, and they know its against the rules to RMT. I don’t really feel that bad about it.
I mean (and I’m saying this ironically) how do you intend to catch all the addicts if there aren’t any dealers?
I think of it this way. If an RMT company can buy an account for $35, make 10 trades for $5 each ($50) in a day, and delete the account (or just wait for the ban), alter their IP, MAC, etc. and repeat, then you can never stop them. But if no one is buying their stuff because they are too afraid of losing their account, then they can’t make those 10 sales/day and it simply becomes unprofitable, and they leave the game voluntarily. No RMT companies, no RMT. Will the addicts be left in the game with no source? Yes. Or maybe they will quit of their own accord. But players who would RMT will do so unless they fear losing their account.
If there aren’t any dealers then the addicts aren’t a problem.
I’m also not sure that many (games) companies really want their customers to be afraid of them. Kinda sends out the wrong signals…
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I quit SW: TOR because they were too heavy-handed with the moderation and monetization. They even have an exit form they want you to fill out when you unsub (and this was years ago, mind you), so I posted it on their forum on my last day. Their mods deleted it despite not having any offensive language or inappropriate material. (They couldn’t even tell me what part of their TOU or CG I supposedly “violated.”) They just didn’t like the bad press because I did call them out how it was wrong for them to still gate so much behind pay walls even for subscribed users.
It wasn’t just me either. I saw them deleting dozens of threads a day that were criticial of the game. They were more interested in avoiding negative appearances than using the feedback to fix the game’s issues–typical EA. Now I won’t touch that company’s games with a stolen dick. Not only did they lose me, they lost half my guild for similar things.
The way you treat your players matters.
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Agreed, which is why you ban the RMT players who are violating the EULA, so that your players appreciate that you care about your game and preventing exploitation.