"If I were a dev..." *Necromancer wish-list*

Feedback and Suggestions
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Hello again y’all, it’s been a few days since the patch now, my big thread breaking down the less than desirable changes has been seeing some traffic, and i thought there was an incredibly slim chance that I could be productive by making a big list of patch notes I’d like to see to address the necromancers issues… and when I say “the necromancer’s issues” I don’t just mean with the 3 problem children spells, I mean every issue that they have as a class. i intend to give a brief rational behind each ticket item on this list, but there will be at least one case that will need further elaboration in a different post… Cough Abomination cough
So without further ado, let us begin:

Mastery Change: In addition to it’s current effects, Necromancer mastery will now grant the player character benefits equal to 30% of their own minion stats.
[r/l: Necromancers are too squishy, and itemization around minion builds are a mess due to having to give up so many personal power stats in favor of minion stats. the way the current system works does not allow for hybrid builds, so this idea is meant to address that.]

New Skill Deadwinds “Channel the cold winds of the afterlife to a targeted location, dealing cold damage and afflicting enemies with ‘Dread’ for 3 seconds. Enemies afflicted by dread take 25% increased cold damage from the necromancers minions.”
[r/l: At long last we have a competitor to dread shade, which is a necrotic buff, here we have a cold buff, this will pop up again later, let us continue.]

Abomination: (just to get it out of the way first, this is only a band-aid fix, as the actual issues with this skill are more systemic and philosophical, such that it would need to be rebuilt from the ground up to actually be balance-capable) “Age of undeath talent is removed, abomination health no longer decays by default. Skill nodes which increased the rate of decay now lower maximum health instead.”
[r/l: I will be making a separate post about this soon]

Sacrifice now deals more damage based on the remaining health of the sacrificed minion (the actual value, not the %, so a full hp golem would be a much bigger hit than a full hp skeleton)
[r/l: maybe it will be useful now?]

Wraith: “Twin spirits” and “Sequel of avarice” skill nodes have swapped locations, "Sequel of avarice now decreases the amount of wraiths you may summon by 1 per point (max 3), “Twin spirits” no longer reduce the number of wraiths you may summon. (you might need to change the name)
[r/l: i did the math, having 5 permanent wraiths with 75% increased damage and such will be slightly better than 8 wraiths (which should be the case for the cost of 3 skill points) but not as strong as 9, which i think is more than fair…]

Infernal Shade: “Subjugation” skill node now caps at 100% increased damage.
[r/l: that it’s guaranteed to kill your minions after only a few dozen seconds makes this another case of the devs overpunishing for minor power, with a cap it might become usable, but we’ll have to keep an eye on it.]

Summon Skeletal Mages: (there’s a few things here)
1: Archmages now scale differently, starting as a normal but larger mage that fires twice as many projectiles, and gains 70% increased health and damage for each mage you could have otherwise summoned (excluding itself)
[r/l: i’ve done the math, on single target the archmage would be slightly less powerful than 4 mages, while on “best case scenario” aoe situations, it would be about as strong as 19 mages, compared to 15 mages from 5 regular mages with splintered dominion, so it would have a niche to be useful in.]
2: Pyromancers now periodically cast “Infernal Shade”, gaining from any specialization points you have slotted if specialized into “infernal shade”
3: Death knights now periodically cast “Spirit Plague” following the same rules as above.
4: Cryomancers now periodically cast “Deadwinds” following the same rules as above.
5: Basic mages will benefit from your hungering souls skill nodes if specialized.
[r/l: more synergy means more reason to put other spells on your bar that aren’t minions.]

Golems: “Ivory twin” talent is removed, Spectral golems damage is converted from physical to cold.
r/l: ivory twin was just a way to nerf your special golems by maybe summoning a not special golem instead, the spectral change was for item synergy.

Enemies that take damage from Volatile Zombie explosions will take increasing damage from future volatile zombie explosions, up to a cap (I suggest 15%/boom up to 105%)
[r/l: I personally feel these to be underwhelming for their mana cost, and since they’re general purpose type minions, they just come off as a bad options, so I’d have them find a niche in longer fights.]

Bone curse is more visible when it deals damage.
[r/l: this is just QoL]

Wandering Spirits deal 50% less damage, but now benefit from minion stats.
[r/l: spirits are entities, i.e., they are minions.]

Summon Skeleton: “Soul catcher, Memory Catcher, and Mind Catcher” skill nodes are now baseline.
[r/l: I felt like nobody used these in the first place, so why not? add a little quality to the event that these permanent minions might die, it usually means we were having a bad time anyways…]
Dread Phalanx: (honestly the best solution is just to remove it, but here’s a bandaid fix) Now reduces the amount of skeletons which may be summoned by 3 (there’s a required skill node just before that raises the max to at least 4 for non necromancers, so this won’t cause issues), but increases the remaining skeleton(s) damage by 300%, this bonus is divided evenly between all summoned skeletons.
[r/l: mathematically this was the only easy way to make the node not a net loss, and it doesn’t require some sort of wacky rounding scenario that causes players to ensure they land on an odd number. technically it would be easier to tune as well, but it’s a start.]

Dread Shade no longer drains health by default, “Grim Fate” skill node now causes it to drain 2% of minions maximum hp per second per stack (max 4)
[r/l: There should never be a punishment aspect baked in to any base skill, ever. if it’s a player choice that gives power, then that’s fine, but an un-augmented skill needs to be fully functioning with no negatives out the gate.]

incidentally, I actually thought this list would be longer, but surprise surprise, here we are at the end. honestly the framework is all there, but i have felt since i started played back in May 2020 that the developers have taken a hard stance towards nerfing good things instead of boosting bad things, and that’s caused my necromancer experience to become closer and closer to is dark souls was an arpg, and that’s just not what i’m here to play. so on the off chance that i’m not just shouting into the void, as i am want to do, i do sincerely hope that the developers give this wishlist a look and maybe, just maybe, a little consideration for your players… we want this game to succeed, and in order for it to do so, it needs to be fun and not constant player punishment for the most basic QoL “fixes”…

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Thanks you really much to bring constructive idea to help get our class better, hope that will be heard because we really need it, I cannot do anything with my lovely necro pet since 8.3. going from OP to trash is stupid in both way

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New ideas are always nice but, tbh, I would rather the devs to do number balance to make a class viable instead of class/skill rework in the next few patches. This applies to all classes.

If we keep having extensive rework on old content, we will be getting further away from release aka feature creep. I rather they release the 3 missing specializations, missing endgames, critical features like debuff icons or legendary chase item or new uniques, new story content, socketed item, new crafting etc. Class/skill rework ideas can still be tabled in the priority list but at lower priority. It is also good to do class rework after release to keep the game fresh.

For acolyte, personally, I felt that the early to levelling process for acolyte feels bad compared to other classes. Rip blood damage is too little. Spirit plague and hungering soul does not stack. Bone marrow cost life to use. Exploding zombie and wondering spirits are clunky to use at early level. Only minions feels better, but lots of people don’t play minion.

So if I am dev, I will buff some of the skills like spirit plague is stackable, hungering soul cause enemies to attack their allies for few second. Add more aoe and damage to rip blood. Bone marrow get damage bugg and life consume is moved to its skill node which gives it ability to return to user and grant %damge as ward. slight mana cost reduction to exploding zombies. Wondering spirit a toggle ability that drains mana per second. All skill node damage mod are adjusted down to account for early game buffs.

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i’d rather they release necromancer, since the class disappeared after the most recent patch. every time they tweak something for my class they manage to put it further and further away from a “state of release”, and if they can’t even manage an already implemented class, i don’t want them to shove out 3 new classes that will either be the same way, or will be grossly overpowered somehow (though based on the game scaling, things tend to lean underpowered rather than over)

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cries in non cold ranged minion Necro

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I have not played necro this patch but most complaint I have seen in this forum so far on necromancer can be fixed by number change. Either damage, duration or decay rate. Melee Ai is the only valid complaint that I have read that need major rework.

Also, chill, this is early access game. There will be times when some changes are detrimental. We can still give constructive feedback without disparaging the game and the devs that work hard to release the patch. I can understand now somewhat why PoE dev do not read reddit anymore if this is what happens on an early release game.

Also, the new class, warlock, that has not been released might also provide hybrid skill that complement necro class.

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I considered suggesting it be general damage, but then it would just be better than dread shade.
with the suggested change to infernal shade, it might be a viable option for fire minions

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i know it is, the problem is it’s becoming an EARLIER access game, because we keep going backwards.
understand that right now, we’re in a situation where the necromancer basically went from:
Necro: “Hey devs, i seem to have a papercut on my right pinky, may i have a band-aid?”
Devs: proceeds to amputate the entire arm
Necro: “This is not at all what i was needing, and although my pinky is no longer bleeding, i now need a new robot arm just to function.”
Guy on forum: “I’d rather the devs not waste time building you a robot arm, because they have 3 other classes to ruin before release so that we can get to multiplayer and not have any fun because we’re all missing an arm now.”

this is what your argument sounds like to me.

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I’m just biased, I hate the ranged minion playstyle and the fact that everything that’s not cold is trash in comparison so seeing more cold crap would annoy me. I’m sure the meta riders would love it though.

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personally i prefer fire builds just because it’s the only element every minion has access to.
flame wraiths, pyre golems, fire archers, pyromancers, infernal zombies (we’re going to ignore that the abomination exists), you can make a whole fire team, just nothing really buffs them.

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That’s why he’s making this post, someone willing to take the time and put the passion into it has to speak up about issues Necro are having right now. No need to “chill” at all.

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I prefer Necrotic damage personally, but I’ll take anything not cold at this point haha

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i don’t feel like bothering with necrotic damage until abomination is either removed or made usable for the hungering souls from mages noming. but considering how the abomination actually works, it will never reach a point where it’s balanced without a complete ground-up redesign.

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I’d prefer they do this and have someone design it who actually enjoys, has played summoner classes in other game and has fun unique ideas. The mastery is an absolute mess.

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well the main issue (and i’ll be writing a post about this after i finish some homework for college) is that the abomination is a parasitic type of ability that “creates” power. to cite my argument on the value of spell slots from my big post the other day, the abomination has no stand-alone function. it requires that you have at least 1 other specific spell on your bar in order to even do anything, and because of this, if it doesn’t limit the power of that other spell or spells, then it “creates power” and if it does, but the power it gains from doing so isn’t high enough, then it’s just a nerf. and while that suggests that there’s a balance to be struck there, understand that it then enters into a situation is balanced, the abomination works and is exactly as valuable as it needs to be, but now you’re playing a class with 3 or less spells available to use.

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Yea, the sad part is that there’s a lot more wrong with the mastery than Abomination though. I think they need to go back and rethink what they want the class to actually be rather than trying to just slap all the ideas that seem good on paper into it and hoping the players find a way to make it work.

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Don’t put word on my mouth. I did not say not to touch necro at all I am suggesting the same as you to put bandaid to it aka adjust the number. It might need a larger bandaid this patch if that works. And them ruining the new classes are just your prediction and “passion” running wild.

I see his passion, but I can see his anger more in this thread. I am sure the devs would be happy to listen to suggestions laced with anger and personal attack. /s

Anyway, enjoy your echo chamber in this thread. I am out.

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well if we’re going to go that deep, then the problems start way before even class, since minion stats as a concept create an itemization disparity where you are sacrificing personal power for a completely separate set of operational rules, and balancing classes that use that system against the ones that don’t is already an issue before you even get into the classes themselves.

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I feel like you’re reading into what he’s saying way too far, some people just express their frustration differently.

No one is angry here and the reason we’re here saying anything in the forums is because we trust EHG to read and listen to what their players have to say, scroll down in Necro and tell me how many others have said anything in the past 6 months about the class other than posting guides or asking questions.

There are things wrong that need to be said, sorry you’re too sensitive and bootlicking to be a part of it.

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Totally agree, minion stats should be backed into the mastery itself rather than needing minion specific stats on gear. In order to do some of the harder content you need so many stats to actually participate let alone do well that it’s insane.

This needs to be baked into the mastery passive where minions can get a portion of your stats or be baked into the passive tree, aside from maybe some of the uniques where it makes sense.