The reason people didn’t use 1slot idols previously is because they are uninteresting and uncompetitive. Being forced to use them doesn’t make them interesting, and only makes them competitive in the sense that they only compete with themselves. Nobody cares about that +5% void resistance. The proper change is making them interesting and worth the slot. Barring that, just remove them.
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Call me “Nobody” then.
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Honestly.,… I thought the change would be far worse that it ended up being…
With the change in space, I have now been able to use the little 1x1s to top up missing resists here or there and being forced to use the other sizes/shapes have made the idols more useful… ie… I can use a 2x1 to get 15% resist and then no longer need an additional affix on gear … I may lose out on an third offensive idol but now I can add offensive affixes to my gear instead and move other things to idols - something that I never did before…
imho, I dont think its as bad as it sounds…
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IMO the 4x1 & 1x4 idols could do with a stat boost since you can’t have as many as before. That said, you can still have 4x 2x2 & 3x1/1x3 idols plus some additional ones.
Yeah agree… Especially considering that they not only take up a lot of space as they always have, they now actively block using other large idols which they didnt do (if you used multiple big idols) before so it may be nice to have them get a bit of a buff…
The 2x2s were actually nerfed. I honestly saw this coming when I first saw the new idol layout. There’s more you can do with idols, but they are less interesting and impactful now.
How were they nerfed? Was that something I skipped in the patch notes again?
Edit: Yup, just seen it. 5% isn’t a particularly big nerf though.
It’s not, but someone was asking for the larger idols to get buffed. Seems like EHG hates the class idols, based on these changes.
Or maybe they just didn’t get round to it in time. 0.8.2 was a massive patch with a significant rework of the monolith system (& the Shade), just like there wasn’t a “balancing” of the EQ Werebear build (in addition to the Werebear getting a rework in 0.8.3 so they’re saving the changes for then).
I wouldn’t be surprised if over the next month or two, or in 0.8.3 we see buffs to the 1x4 & 4x1 idols.
Believe me, I get that. I’d rather they just waited on the idol changes until they could do a full idol pass so this didn’t feel so crappy.
It’s not a problem with the 4x1 and 1x4 idols, it’s a problem with the 1x1 idols.
I don’t care about “losing power” or “oh no my build got nerfed”. It’s that the generic 1x1 and 2x1 idols are crazy uninteresting, and being forced into using them doesn’t particularly add any kind of engagement. The class specific idols are loaded with unique effects that change how the class works. The generic idols are loaded with +5% to a single resistance. Or +2% elemental resist.
Taking away unique options and replacing them with boring generic options isn’t a positive change.
2 Likes
Yeah, I agree with you that the small idols are less interesting. Though I think that if they did have more interesting mods then they’d have to have smaller values due to your ability to have more of them. The larger idols are the class specific ones that have the interesting modifiers & I’m not sure how well that would translate to the 1x1 & 2x1 idols.
I would agree that the 1x1 idols can be underwhelming.
But the 1x2 and 2x1 are actually great. They have very good resistances and also offer all types of damage and most importantly leech on hit, which is something that is really hard to get on specific classes.
I am using a ton of 2x1 idols for leech on my hybrid/void sorcerer
But they’re also boring.
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It’s a (huge?) nerf for things like
→ Chance For Hungering Souls To Fire 6 Additional Projectiles - Item prefixes - Last Epoch Item Database,
→ Chance On Hit To Summon A Thorn Totem - Item prefixes - Last Epoch Item Database,
→ Chance To Cast An Avalanche Boulder At a Nearby Enemy On Melee Attack - Item prefixes - Last Epoch Item Database
and some others.
Also think they need a (small?) buff to compensate.
I said something really similar to this a couple days ago, but people acted like it was no big deal. I knew these complaints were coming, so I asked Mike about it.
Albinosaurus — 05/23/2021
Mike, with the idol changes coming up (granting more slots, but nerfing class idol capacity), are there plans to put more interesting stats on the smaller/generic idols?
Mike W — 05/23/2021
We haven’t done a ton to those slots. It’s something we will keep an eye on this patch and likely address for next patch.
We’ll just have to wait and see, I guess.
Edit:
I’ve made reference a couple times to the idea of “false weight” in design, and this change (in a vacuum) fits that pattern. Now, if they do more to make the smaller idols more interesting, it’s fine. It changes the weight to something a lot more legitimate.
However, I see this same attitude in design toward the mana changes, lack of shard auto-collect, the respec system, certain aspects of Monos, and a few other things I can’t remember off the top of my head. I hope these are just mistakes and not willful stubbornness due to an inadequate design philosophy or insufficient analysis. I prefer to assume the devs are doing their best and that this can just be difficult to see when you’re so deep in the weeds (coding) as they are.
The fundamental question about false/genuine weight is: Does this enhance or obstruct the essence of the core gameplay loop? Are these choices given meaning that significantly or interestingly alters that loop, or are they just “extra steps?”
2 Likes
I’d argue the 1x1 idols could be seen as supplementary idols, not large enough to do special things in their own right but small enough to help boost stats in particular situations.
Maybe in the future they could add class specific 1x1 idols for more interesting effects but the extra ward/health/resist on the 1x1’s have given added tankiness to my builds that weren’t there in 0.8.1
I’m more concerned about 4x1 and 1x4 idols looking like a mess in the current layout and antagonizing my OCD.
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It is pretty awkward now, lol
Lol…
I am not a fan but I will live
4x1 Idols got hammered. Scared to login my Paladin with 4x Keen Idol (Smite on Throw) after finding MANY of them I never got above an 8% (up to 10%) so max proc was 40% if you had 4 perfect. I had 8/8/7/7 or something
So I lose 7% proc chance, down to 23%
I am more interested to know what happens to your Idols that dont fit, are they just shoved back into your inventory? what happens if you login with a full pack and cannot hold the idol does it just drop on the ground?