I was pro LE but

Damn that D4 slam server test was awesome. I might choke some of you but i think i will move to D4.

Did you tried it ? Did you like it ?


Time is limited, do whatever you think will increase your happiness the most. It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks (unless it’s illegal, abusive, etc) & LE will still be here if/when you get bored of D4 (& likewise, D4 will still be there if/when you get bored of LE).

It’s ok to enjoy other games, you’re not cheating on someone.


Sure you’re right ! I always think something is missing in LE like 1 or 2 point to finish a build…

I would still play if FX of the vacumm drain life of acolyte would look better, i’m draining life and with this fx it looks like i’m cleaning my house :smiley: I need to see the blood to come to me. Like a vampyr ^^

Yep tried it, yep loved it… gonna smash the granny out of it on release… And you are right, some people here will try and convince you, that is bad… Dont let other peoples opinion on it ruin your enjoyment though, because your enjoyment of it is not determined by those people.

Some will say its D4 is crap because, crafting, D2 never had a deep crafting system, 23yrs later, that is played a hella lot, so its not really a big deal.

What matters in a game is fun, if your having fun thats what matters.

D4 & LE(if EHG fix the server issues) will be my go to games, D4 being the main, and LE on rotation of seasons.

D4 will be my main game and LE only if i want to play sorc cause D4 sorc animation are meh…

Lets face it… We are all gonna play everything at some point. It’s just in our natures as arpg players and it takes a long time for new games to come around in this genre. Who cares which one we dream about at night, so long as we are being entertained and having fun.



Personally I’ve seen some of the gameplay and it doesn’t look very exciting. I’m also not super keen on supporting Blizzard these days.

I will say, I still like D3 a lot. I wish that game had not boiled down to just putting on whatever item had the highest number on it, and repeated nerfs to unintended builds players discovered. Last Epoch is kind of the total opposite of that attitude and this I admire it for, but it is not as pretty or snappy on the controls as D3 was. Hopefully by the time the game is ready to launch, it will have caught up some because I would much rather build a character in Last Epoch than any of the other modern ARPG’s out there right now.

I really dislike this whole “game X is way better than game Y, I will move on and stop playing game Y” mentality and together with these provocative titles and statements trying to spark arguments about which game is better.

At the end of the day everybody should play what they want and a big portion of a lot of gaming communities, especially in this case AaRPG communities will eventually play or at least test multiple games anyway.

I am not a really big fan of Diablo in general and I don’t have any strong opinions about D4 to be honest (and usually I do have very strong opinions about a lot of things :P)
D4 didn’t hype me at all (probably because of my general dislike of the franchise), but it also didn’t look very bad either. (And a AAA game like this not triggering any strong emotion for me is overall probably a more negative than positive thing i would say :D)

I am not opposed to try it out on release or shortly after, but I doubt it will be a long time game for me.


Yeah, once D4 is released I’m out. Was trying to play LE last night and it just felt hollow and pointless. Had no motivation to grind the same echoes that I’ve completed hundreds of times already just so that I can increase the corruption (let’s be honest - for no reason) and run some more of them.

What keeps me going in most of these games is trying new builds and fighting bosses. I feel like there’s enough different interesting bosses that I want to kill them on Empowered, and by the time I’ve done that I’m level 97 or 98 so there’s no point to not just finishing leveling at that point.

But I get what you’re saying. If you’re not having fun, it can be a slog. Might be worth taking a break and trying something different when / if you come back to it.

I have one character from each class - 3 at level 85 and 2 at level 100. I’ve killed monolith bosses countless times, completed all dungeons far too many times and there just isn’t anything left to chase. I don’t think I’ve had an upgrade to any of my exalted items on any of my characters for at least 20-30 hours.

The game has literally become an echo simulator with zero reward at this point for me. It’s a good game underneath, otherwise I wouldn’t have played it so much, but it really falls flat once you get to min maxing because of all the layers of RNG.

D4 felt right straight away. Loot is more meaningful, upgrades are more straightforward, higher difficulties will actually give better gear like it should so I’m really looking forward to diving in!

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Well I hope you enjoy it. I have four characters at 100 and I’m working on a 5th that is at 80. There’s still other stuff I want to try.

What I really hope doesn’t happen is that all these games turn into never-ending-update type games where they constantly change or nerf old builds and replace them with new ones. I have some respect for that philosophy as far as adding new content goes, but I really don’t like for old content to be taken away or invalidated. Makes it harder to go back and enjoy or share with other people in the state it used to be in. If every game I like turns into a job rather than a fun thing to do on the weekend, that would be kind of a dystopian outcome, from my perspective.

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It’s ok to enjoy other games, you’re not cheating on someone.

TIL games are polyamourous!


As someone who used to be a Blizz fanboy (D3 beta, Hearthstone alpha,…) I gotta say…

D4 beta feels a lot like D3 beta, and it played completely differently than endgame, unfortunately. While the current tree is an improvement over the D3 glyph-style skill choices, it isn’t that much deeper in complexity. I have yet to play the new paragon boards, but I’m worried they will be “solved” in a few months aswell, making effective build diversity fairly limited.

Compared to LE, Grim Dawn, maybe even PoE, I don’t see a lot of options to tweak ‘meta’ builds to my playstyle.

That said, I’m still gonna play it, and I hope I’m wrong, but after 2 weekends on 4 characters to “max”, I only have 3-4 builds I really wonna play in D4. Compared to the spreadsheet worth of builds I still wonna do in LE, I’m definitely not betting on D4 to be my main ARPG by christmas

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For me its a pricetag thing.

D4 is simply too expensive. I can afford it, but I got 450 hours out of chronicon, maybe 100 out of slormancer, and those two games combined + LE are what D4 costs.

I also have 60 hours in super auto pets which is free.

And I look at d4 and dont actually think id get that many hours of enjoyment tbqh.

I bet I could get 50-100 maybe, but for the price tag id rather just put another 100 hours in LE or some other game that isnt priced around its name branding.

D4 looks like a decent game. It does not look like a 70 dollar game.

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This is my ongoing problem not just with ARPG’s, but games in general, is the ever-creeping simplification of what you’re expected or desired (or really even allowed) to do. I think with D3 they were a little too blatant with it so they didn’t get away with it, but now almost every major game is boiling down to the simplest thing to make that will hold people’s attention. Worst of all, outside of this and a few other communities, people don’t seem to care.

The one thing I like about Last Epoch is that even though the builds that are actual viable narrow down dramatically lategame, you can still experiment and find all kinds of cool stuff that probably wasn’t intended or thought of originally when they set the game up. I hope the game continues to expand rather than contract in that regard in future iterations.

I’ll play D4 up and down and all the way arround. I think it’s a well done game from what I’ve seen and will be a very nice game to play. If the seasons don’t overlap between LE, D$ and cough Hero Siege I’ll play them all because every title of these has something that’s speak to me.
D4 is overall very pleasing. Anytime I try to find out what I love about LE and what I realy dislike about LE I can’t put a finger on it it put it in words but I still like to play it. Hero Siege is just that sctartch for my 2D itch.

Right now I’m jumping up and down for D4 and I hope to participate in the beta for Hero Siege 2 because that stuff is new and fresh. After I played said 2 games I’m most likely very eager to play LE again and sooner or later I’m possibly sick and tired of all three games and play something else :smiley: .

I think with PC games the way is the goal and I just play whatever suits my fancy right at that moment. I’m not that kid anymore that played WoW 20h/day.


I don’t like to take part in these discussions, but people are saying “d4 gud!” everywhere so its kind of hard to avoid. This is not to bash the game, but I really did not like it and I cannot understand what people see in it.

I did not bother playing the server slam, but I did play the previous one.

Nearly the entire time I felt like I wanted to stop playing. The only reason I forced myself to continue was to collect the cute pet thing, in case I choose to in future pick up the game on discount. For example I still remember diablo3 beta. I could not stop playing it and I felt annoyed when its beta ended and couldn’t wait to get my hands its full release.

What was good about d4 is that it played really well and also ran really well. It worked perfectly even on my old computer.
Thats about it.

The skill tree (or skill twig) is very weak for an arpg. There is almost no customization on it. The customization is moved from the tree into random drop uniques. This reduces build diversity because there only exists builds that devs intended to exist. Nothing that isn’t suported by these uniques will not work.

The world is empty. When I ran around, there were only some random pointless mobs along the way. I ran into events that are quick few minutes of mobs spawning around you. Worst ones were on a very large area where you were supposed to “kill all and pick things”. There were not even enouhg mobs around and it took a very long time to simply run around the enormous are to find the specfici mob types that could drop the things.

Dungeons are tunnels. There are no more open areas. There is no sign pointing this to be otherwise in the later acts.

End game is just grinding the same dungeons over and over again. I’d put it worse than, say, LE monoliths.
There was also some random events hell tide or something, but that is not something you can always go do(?).
World bosses are not always up. Think if, say LE, monolith time line wasn’t up always and you need something from it? You cant even solo world bosses so they arent like bosses in LE or PoE, etc.

MMO elements. People wandering about being annoying.
Itemization was bland. Stats felt weird to me.
UI was designed for console. Or one could say d4 is a console game first and pc game second.

D4 is clearly designed not with arpg fans in mind, but for people who might not have even played one before.

Honestly… this post is already too long and I could add some stuff about the paragon boards and such, but I don’t think Last Epoch forums is the right place to post about my opinions about Diablo4.

I just cant personally find anything in d4 that would make me feel “i want to play this game”. As far as my testing of it went and what information has been released, that was and is still my feelings about it. I simply see no reason to even consider buying it.

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Three coughs for Hero Siege, please. I love that game but you have to cough way more when you mention it here lol.

There is a tendency in all media, not just videogames, for audiences to have a honeymoon period with the new thing. Movies, TV, games, comics, all of it has this built in period of hyper attention, hence “hype.” It may be due to the psychological tendency for excitement over a community or cultural event to be contagious. Big corporations are adept at taking advantage of this these days, and create artificial hype at the right time to turn it into sales. There’s a small group of people who are highly susceptible to this phenomenon, but they’re massively over-represented on social media because they can post constantly and in multiple places, so their enthusiasm gets signal boosted by the structure and nature of the internet.

There’s kind of a mean phrase or expression that is sometimes used to describe this, but it definitely fits the behavioral pattern: “Like new thing, get excited for newer thing.”

D4 may or may not be what it’s being cracked up to be at the moment, but the delight people have for it right now is probably not going to last more than a month or two after launch. Then you’ll see way more grounded and less ecstatic opinions being given about it. Just give it time. Even people here who love it right now will probably love it slightly less 100 hours in.

The most important thing is for people to recognize that they’re falling into this pattern of delight and thereby dampen the effect a bit. If one is aware that they might be being manipulated, it causes them to self examine and slow down their decision making process. This is a kind of psychotherapy, just like talking to someone you confide in can be, where you change your perspective and reset the way you’re prepared to respond to certain facts or circumstances. I’m not sure why we don’t educate more people on how this works, but I’m confident a lot of entities out there trying to sell us stuff wouldn’t like it if we did.

Personally, I hope D4 is at least a good game, but I share your assessment. Just from what I’ve seen, it’s not something I’d want to spend a lot of time on. I can’t imagine from how the gameplay works that it’s any real improvement over D3 and D3 already lost my attention awhile ago. Hopefully word of mouth will catch up with it if it isn’t.