Like they couldn’t have used another couple weeks?
I’ll be playing LE and skipping PoE 2 0.2 all together. Stand strong EHG.
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I don’t think it matters. If LE wants to grow, it needs to put out great content, consistently, and find a way to monetize their game properly. These timings are completely secondary to growing a good reputation longerm to where your games is regularly recommended and followed. That is why they shouldnt focus on competition and just focus on putting out the best content they can, which is what I think they are doing.
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Why are you ascribing malice to GGG’s intent?
The absence of malice doesn’t absolve one of some responsibility of a negative outcome. Especially if the actor has firsthand experience with the possible negative outcomes.
The movie industry, wisely, tries hard to not have competing launches on the same weekend.
It’s not uncommon in the games industry.
LE is a live game, and announced it’s date first.
PoE 2 is in EA, and GGG has been the underdog before, so they have experience with launch dates.
If they meant no harm, and yet harm occurs, would you give them a free pass?
If they meant no harm, and no harm occurs, I still wouldn’t give them a free pass because I consider it a dick move.
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Inb4 GGG changes the date (as planned) to generate more goodwill.
Idk why but I have a nagging suspicion this will happen. ARPG players and content creators will be happy and make comments/videos how this is very good, commend GGG for accomodating and it’ll make it seem like they are listening to community.
But if LE prepones because of it I’d be pretty happy since we get it earlier and I’m not playing the PoE beta anyway.
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Why should they?
It’s a massively entitled position to take… why should a company which is out to provide a good product and hence receive the money of their customers ‘wait for others’? That would be the peak of utter stupidity and also utterly unfair towards their customers.
Timing matters… for LE. They’re in a weaker position on the market, having to work around providing their product when the others aren’t.
It’s EHG’s job to look out for those things and adapt to the situation. Not the responsibility of other companies to ensure EHG can thrive.
All other companies have a responsibility towards is to look at the good things EHG does and use that newfound knowledge to improve their own games while not actively acting against competitors with malice.
Actually it does, nigh world-wide. Neglect would be the apt description hence, ‘not having thought about the respective outcome or acted without care’.
The movie industry does? Who does that? Have I missed something? Or do you mean ‘Hollywood doesn’t release other Hollywood movies to ensure Hollywood produces the most amount of revenue possible’ or not trying to actively compete against other movie creators where you’re unsure of being sky high above the expectations people have towards them and hence risking to loose everything invested into your movie?
Or the games industry which generally adjusts launches surrounding the prevalent established existing games of their sector?
You mean those?
Then yes, that happens. But EHG is not the prevalent game in the genre. They’re upstarts… alongside monoliths.
Hollywood doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the release of Bollywood movies, neither does GGG about the release schedule of EHG hence.
Yes, and it’s their responsibility to provide their customers with a update which has been severely postponed for post-launch fixes and adjustments for both their games at the earliest possible date given their ability.
Otherwise it would be neglicence and a dark stain on their record. EHG is sadly in the crossfire… being the underdog they have to do the same stuff EHG had to do early on… adjust their release schedule backwards or forwards. Given that EHG is in a precarious situation of their own making though related to release-date that’s their own damn issue and nobody else’s.
Yes, I don’t yell at other workers on a construction site when I see them being busy with stuff… not taking every possible measure to avoid getting in their way when I see they’re starting to work on something rather clunky and are already in a rush… and then get a wooden board slapped against my head as they try to handle it as quickly as possible.
I could’ve also prepared to take the long route beforehand or grabbed a helmet so it doesn’t hurt me at least when I get slapped with it.
That’s the current situation related to release dates. GGG was late, they had to postpone, expectations already were there for the release to happen around that time anyway… and EHG released a fixed date.
There’s no darn ‘dips’ for release dates. If your stronger competitor is preparing for it it’s in the responsibility of the weaker competitor to prepare adjustments for such a situation and not the stronger one.
Won’t happen likely. That would be a gross mishandling of the situation. Miniscule goodwill for pissing off their playerbase who tends to take time off of work which can’t be adjusted to play the game… and then missing out. It hurt other leagues already, it would hurt that one too.
LE has to pull it forward or postpone simply. Postponing will ruin their position a bit further then it already is though… and I think EHG is woefully unprepared for a timely release anyways, as with 1.0 and 1.1. It would be a massive positive thing if not, but that’s how a sane person has to see it given how long ‘the ball was dropped’ already.
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Timing matters… for LE. They’re in a weaker position on the market, having to work around providing their product when the others aren’t.
Its secondary to providing the best product you can. I never claimed its irrelevant. Timing matters for any product, but it shouldn’t make or break your product. I don’t know why you think I claimed any company needs to cater to EHG so I won’t respond to that
I’m not chiming in on the overall topic. But you’re incorrect with this. That’s why crime by negligence is a thing, nigh world-wide.
Malice only increases the seriousness of the issue. But if you’re driving distracted and kill someone, it’s still a crime even though there was no malice involved.
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I have no idea if there was malicious intent or not but I doubt it. GGG is not in a good place right now (just lost one of its founders, PoE1 is going to be a year into its current league, and PoE2 got off to a shaky start), so I would expect them to be highly motivated to get their update to the market ASAP. The fact that there may be consequences for a competitor is just an unfortunate side effect that would not change the results for any reasonable publisher who has an obligation to get their products out to market. Business is business, and sometimes you have to make tough calls that cost goodwill but are necessary.
What was unnecessary was the way they rolled it out. There must be 50 ways they could have handled the announcement better. Jonathan could have put out a letter to players stating what I just said above and trying to get some understanding of their position. They could have called EHG and talked to them privately, noting the above and the decision. But to just drop the date and leave the impression that EHG and LE be damned, unnecessarily created a PR disaster that is going to cost them far more than it should have.
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That’s not an apt analogy because driving while distracted is wrong by any measure. Releasing a product that conflicts with a competitor’s date when your company is facing the kind of turmoil that GGG is currently experiencing, because you absolutely need to get your product to market as soon as you can, is not wrong, immoral and certainly not negligent. Negligence requires a duty that is violated and GGG has no duty to EHG that was violated.
GGG’s decision was not the blunder or evil, it was just a stupidly handled decision that unnecessarily created a PR disaster when it could all have been avoided with a decent roll-out announcement that recognized the complications and emphasized the necessity of getting their fixes out to market as soon as they became available, instead of dropping it on the world and letting this whole “malice” discussion ensue.
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I did say I wasn’t chiming in on this topic.
I was merely replying to the statement that absence of malice absolves one of responsability of a negative outcome. This can be either a crime by negligence, you being negligent in your job and being fired, etc.
Even without malice, you can be responsible for a negative outcome.
Again, not talking about this issue in particular, as I don’t think I have anything new to contribute.
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Agreed. Whether you wish to chime in on this particular situation or not, what I hope we can also agree on is the notion that being “responsible for a negative outcome” does not necessarily reflect wrongdoing of any kind.
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Yes, but you’re only prosecuted if it fulfills the condition of being able to be avoided without personal damage. You’re not held accountable if you drive at normal speed limit, non-distracted and someone hides behind a car and jumps right into it from outside of any visibility for you. Not your fault.
In this case GGG would cause itself damage, hence it’s not malignant, hence it’s not even neglicence. No matter if GGG thought about the situation of EHG or not. EHG positioned itself and GGG can’t steer away simply as it would cause them harm to do so. Self-preservation of the company simply. More then understandable.
And if we want to go into detail for the situation then GGG and EHG are in a competitive environment pitted against each other (to a degree). Hence measures to ensure you’re coming out on top are expected, unless malignant.
On the contrary even… if - for example - a already won match is ongoing between 2 teams of ‘whatever’, and there’s a newcomer which is working his ass off the whole time but hasn’t managed to get into the limelight is there… and the winning team intentionally positions themself so that newcomer looks great to the audience… then something like that has to be commended.
But in the absence of it? You don’t go and reprimant the winning team for not doing so, that would be beyond entitled.
And that’s exactly what’s this notion is.
Exactly that!
And expecting otherwise would be the height of nonsense… this whole topic… is the absolute height of nonsense - sadly.
Not really. Just normal business as usual.
Not like Blizzard which provided a awfully inadequate product and then tried to actively and malignantly compete over customers with GGG by providing their release info at the same dates as GGG did by design.
GGG simply dropped their dates and doesn’t give a shit. They don’t go out of the way to make the life harder of EHG, they don’t go out of their way to make it easier. They just let EHG be, do their job and do their own.
Since when is that something reprehensible?
Or is it solely reprehensible when it starts to lead to conflicts of interest?
I would say it’s simply a conflict of interest between them and not really avoidable… may the better company win. Simple as that.
As I said, I’m not referring to the topic being discussed. But you made a broad statement that absence of malice absolves you of responsibility (or disagreed with someone who said it doesn’t) and that was all I was referring to.
But your example isn’t a good one. Because the person that did that is responsible of a crime as well and is liable to pay for your car repairs. In this case, there was malice involved in the person that throws itself in front of your car (either to themselves or others).
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It looks exactly like the kind of thing Blizzard did with WOW releases to hurt competitors. In this case I believe it was probably the first week they knew it could be ready and they felt no concern going head to head with LE.
I don’t think they held back the release to be the same week as they had hoped to release it two weeks earlier. I do wish GGG picked a release date a week later as that would still give them 18 days of a season before D4’s next season. They are balancing giving their players what they want as soon as they can with some lost goodwill by making them choose.
Going forward, EHG will need to be more careful in announcing release dates. They need to balance the date around POE1, POE2 and D4. EHG is likely to sometimes pick dates that may hurt smaller games like Torchlight Infinite or Undecember.
Some people ask why it even matters, and it matters because if you like LE then you want it to do as well as possible so they can keep delivering updates.
Hopefully the streamers that skip LE’s launch will return later in the season after they’ve had their fill of POE2. EHG should maybe even consider doing an POE style temp server event the last month to attract those who already did what they wanted or were playing other games.
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In theory GGG did nothing wrong. This won’t backfire and they are big enough to not care about whatever. Always remember. Might makes right.
Do I like what they did? Not realy ^^.
Ehg should just change their release date and problem is solved. like 1 week earlier release,. Le is in weak position here not poe 2
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’
that is debatable… I see a lot of people commenting in some PoE creator’s videos that they’re not willing to play the next PoE2 update, simply because it’s still an EA and still has a lot to be worked on before it’s an official release.
I, myself, am not willing to pay for an EA experience… I only play EAs if I get invited, or get a key or something, so I’m only ever touching PoE2 after it’s officially released.
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Is it? LE is dwarfed by the numbers PoE pulls just sayin. Some people saying they play LE over PoE2 all for the underdog… my ass. I belive it when I see it and not a second earlier. I won’t be suprised if PoE2 pulls doubble the numbers for an EA patch over LEs season 2.
PoE overall is undisputable in the stronger position.
Not PoE 1 itself or PoE 2 itself. But the overall userbase with the amount of workers on their product they have a massive headstart compared to LE, which comes from experience and optimizing their content-pipeline over time.
PoE 2 can easily afford a whole year of not implementing grand things before falling out of favor completely… LE can’t, it’s already at the edge of that, they got no leeway.
And PoE 1 is highly anticipated and people simply wait because of PoE 2 to get their new league there.
Which is fine. No rush after all.
But gameplay wise without having to pay… you would do it, right?