It would, as I mentioned earlier, with no FP you’d be able to rune of removal any affixes you didn’t want on your items (rare or exalted) & replace them with t5 affixes that you did want. Almost like an item editor, except you’d still be beholden to the vagaries of the rune of removal.
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And if you did remove the wrong one, you could just craft it back on there.
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Assuming it wasn’t the exalted affix.
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If you agree that there’s no reason to have it, and also believe there’s no reason not to have it, then none of it matters, does it?
This is ham handed hyperbole that isn’t useful, and all-or-nothing perspectives are simply not valid. These numbers are all completely made up. They don’t mean anything real. There’s no meaningful difference between “perfect” items and the much more attainable “imperfect” items. There’s nothing you can do with a numerically perfect item that you can’t do without it.
If it really, truly damages your ability to enjoy the game when it’s very unlikely/impossible that you can get mathematically perfect items, you need to be honest with yourself about how dysfunctional your relationship to games is. Because it’s not reasonable to enjoy a game less just because you may not ever get the super best made up numbers.
It shouldn’t significantly affect your mental or emotional state in either direction, man.
There is nothing special about FP compared to any other bit of randomization in loot, so no, it really isn’t. It’s just rabble-rabbling about how it’s so totally a big deal that the biggest possible arbitrary numbers are harder to get than the less big arbitrary numbers being dressed up as something wise. Using 10 dollar words to express a 10 cent idea is not writing well and being articulate.
Making a distinction without a difference is not a valid foundation for an argument.
Silly hyperbole isn’t either.
But what happens when the donkey or the horse eats the carrot before moving? Do you actually accomplish anything? That is the point for the carrot and stick, to keep you moving forward, with the object of your desire just out of reach until you arrive at your destination.
It’s an imaginary carrot. Some people can’t help but think that everything theoretically possible should be achievable given enough grind. People have a problem understanding scale.
Some people here would probably be just giddy if they could waste their life away pointlessly grinding away at an infinitely scaling game with no end, no point, or no real goal. Some ego driven peen measuring mindset that makes them want to brag about how much more of their life they meaninglessly wasted away than others.
Now that I am burnt out on Lost Ark (finally hit 1415, beat Valtan, and… don’t feel like logging back in at all) I’m jumping back into this because I skipped out on the past few updates including the crafting update. Forging Potential feels vastly superior to the previous system, which also feels vastly superior to anything PoE gives us (RNG in RNG in RNG in RNG to maybe get an extra 50 HP or 1k DPS at level 90). IDK if I’ll come up against a wall at some point, but the very nature of these games is going after that next cool item or big upgrade and enjoying the new found power it gives you. Forging Potential feels like the right place to be at least until 1.0 and it can get any needed tweaks. So long as all improvements help streamline, reward, and expand on player’s guiding the experience and process (LE lets you pick your mods, which to level first, etc which is perfect) then I imagine I’ll remain a fan of FP.
There is a ton of potential and many places they can go to expand upon the current crafting implementation and FP is an excellent starting place after the disappointment and headaches of the old system. It feels a lot fairer now and the bad luck less bad/common. It’s a guided system that rewards your grind by making far more items potential upgrades because you can hang on to “good” stuff to better mix and match your affixes across your gear once you have sufficient loot to work with and fill in gaps.
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Yeah but make crafting gambling is a reason I don’t play a lot of games ;). Right now the game is rather easy and you can get a lot done with all T3 gear and some blessings. IF the devs decide to make the game harder everyone and their grannys will see how flawed crafting is because crafting in LE is just a bigger slot machine then in other games.
More on topic… FP is there to remove the ability to have 4xT5 gear at lvl 10 in every slot by throwing enough crafting mats at it and have a lot of luck. These 4xT5 stats aren’t that important anymore because most people chase exalts and uniques with a lot of LP.
If there is a change and Items are crafteable as much as someone want to there is a big downside there as well… the most unskilled players and their grannys will say the game is to easy and will only cry about 1shot mechanics.
To me the most “fun” thing to do is:
- Crafting consumes times/mats rather then luck
- If crafting is easier forget about trade and save time
- If crafting is easier do a balance pass what will use a looot of time
At least I would be happy about rather then possibly wasting 20 of my 20 FP in 2 craft attempts that make a possible great item into vendor trash.
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It doesnt - as you know I am firmly in the “just a game” boat - just using the phrase to illustrate a point that what it does do is make me rethink having fun grinding vs going “nah I have better things to do”. And if I have to make that kind of choice in a game then I move on…
Level requirements are there to prevent that…
In my opinion, Lastepoch and Chronicon are almost the opposite extremes of the same genre, I often praise Last Epoch’s values as “an elegant moderation” when recommending it to others, but Chronicon, wow, it’s almost indulgent and coddling player, I can honestly say it’s the first time I’ve seen Qa damage values in a game of this magnitude —— through the stacking of mechanics rather than the D3 kind of adding 0 to the end of the multiplier
Although this indulgence makes the game’s explorability quickly depleted in the endgame stage, but in the first few dozen hours, the freedom of “any attempt you want to get stronger is feasible”, is not given to me by any other similar games
No, there is no imaginary carrot. It was literally used for centuries to get beasts of burden to do things for us.
The point of the metaphor above was, do you want the reward before accomplishing anything and to have the forge be a pinata of over T24 gear on a whim?
That is what I am meaning. There are things in life that are just out of reach. That does not mean you stop trying based on the cards you are dealt, you get some winning hands some losing hands, and some you push on.
It really went over your head didn’t it?
The “imaginary carrot” is the 4LP legendary with a 4x T7 exalted item. People keep comparing crafting “shortfalls” to that level of gear as if that is even realistic. It isn’t, thus imaginary.
Gear in LE is supposed to be focused on loot drops. Crafting is just to top off items that you find on the ground. The only reason it is even as complex as it is is probably because people kept complaining about it.
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No, it did not go over my head. We are speaking of two parallel thoughts. Our points will not equate or make sense to each other. Since like I said earlier those types of items are not to be the norm, and there seems to be a group of players that think they should be.
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I agree with that and that was the entirety of my point.
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Well, I do not gamble so your whole post is not grounded in what I determine as fun. Try using more than just goal and motivation. I have developed game titles and I know what it takes to make a successful title. Know your audience. Design the game within a framework that delivers without overpromising. Have room for growth and never let all the Easter Eggs out at the same time.
Then this is not “crafting” it is tuning. I don’t believe there is actually much crafting possible. I think any attempts to truly craft an item are balanced by design to eat more FP so I can’t remove 2 bad affixes and get the ones I want up to t5. The range they land in their tiers is still RNG, the base and implicits are RNG
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That’s good. That’s the perspective everybody should have. It’s just a game, and it’s ok to decide you’re done with a game.
Some people seem to want to have a reason to continue playing games long after they’ve stopped actually being fun, and I think that’s really weird.
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I think that the main issue is that crafting in LE is primarily gated by bases which are not fungible (i.e. they are all distinct and cannot be exchanged by one another) and are consumed by the crafting process.
This is opposed to the POE system where crafting is primarily gated by materials, which are fungible (an essence is indistinguishable from another essence of the same type).
What is there for bases in POE is largely not lost in the crafting process (with some exceptions, most recently the recombinators), the individual crafting steps have a miniscule chance of successs, but rarely destroy the item, and can often be spammed as long as you have the materials.
This has the implication that all crafting projects in LE are essentially started from scratch, since the base that you need is unique to the item that you want to craft, and you go through so many bases that it is very unlikely that you will already have enough bases stashed away.
Additionally, there is not progression in crafting. You get a base, you try to craft it, either you get the desired result or you don’t. You will never really be half-way there to the craft because failure means losing the base.
This has the effect, that, to me, crafting in LE is a lot less satifying, its not a process, its a coinflip. When I finally get a success, or something that is at least passable, I don’t feel satisfaction, just relief.
On the other hand upon failure, I know that it could be a very long time before I get another shot.
This thread has really made me wonder if this is truly the best way.
I alway taken for granted that there needed to be some form of instability/FP in the crafting system, but as pointed out, the nature of exalted items already prevent you from crafting the best item from scratch.
I think that part of the issue is also that there need to be more systems added to crafting.
The current POE crafting system is the result of years of iterations, which created a very rich toolbox for crafters to use. Comparatively, the sytem in LE is incredibly young and sparse in tools.
This is funny 'cause that’s how I feel with PoE.
This I disagree with. When you craft an item from a tier X to tier x+1, that’s progression, it’s just not infinitely progressable if you have the mats like how PoE generally is.
I’m not sure if there is a best way, only different, with pros & cons that some will like & others won’t. I think that’s ok, would you want every aRPG with crafting to iterate that crafting to a single type that the entire genre shares? What if you don’t enjoy it?
+1.
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