It sounds like you’ve got to the long tail of the item search where the vast majority of items either aren’t as good as/better or can’t practically be made better than your current gear. This is what happens when you get to that point with all games (except PoE since you can continue to throw currency at gear to try for the miniscule chance of an item which is better than your current gear).
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Do you have any insight into at what stage the devs expect a player character to reach this “long tail” point? After how long grinding late end-game on the same char?
Reason I ask is that it seems to come quicker than I expected and if it were not for the nice way of respec’ing into trying other builds, I would be pretty frustrated with quite a few of my lvl 100 chars - essentially being unable to improve them anymore.
The “effort vs reward” loop tends to come to a conclusion hard and fast… and I find myself having nothing to aim for beyond just getting better/more skilled at playing that particular char/skills… and that gets old fairly fast too…
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Yes, it is. But I got into this long tail almost as soon as I got the exalted items.
In an attempt to improve the quality of the drop, I raised the monolith’s corruption level to 1200. And it didn’t help.
I became interested in this topic because the lack of an FP limit or the ability to restore it would significantly increase my interest in the game.
I suspect I’m not the only one.
I agree with the statements in the last video from the Lizard about the low impact of items in the game. In practice, the game doesn’t care if you have T5 or T7 affixes, at a low level they can’t kill you with a certain set of skills, at a high level they kill you with oneshots, this is another problem of game design.
But damn, the game, items already have practically no value, so you still don’t give beautiful numbers )))
Not a clue, but as @EnuwEpoch says, I suspect it’s around the time you get exalted items, since you can’t craft the t6/7 affixes you need to get them as drops which means you hit a speed “bump” in terms of item acquisition since they’ll be the only upgrade after you get to t20s. But in principle, it’s inevitable if you have an item system with a cap (affix tiers in this case). The only thing they can do is change where that bump/slowdown happens.
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Pretty similar experience… I think my problem is also that I hoarded exalts so I tended to transition into using them (usually max crafted) earlier than I probably would have if I was doing a char with a clean slate and had to find the items I needed… I definitely havent pushed corruption like you have… 350ish was as far as I was willing to grind…
Neither is engine repair. That’s what makes it an analogy. If it was crafting, it wouldn’t be an analogy at all, just a direct comparison
And you still would have a maximum performance that the chip is capable of. It doesn’t matter how many times they let me craft the same tier 4 affix on an item if it’ll never reach tier 5. The only difference here is that in overclocking, the maximum potential of the chip is hidden from you for longer and has to be discovered, whereas in crafting it’s very clear once you reach 0 FP that the craft is over.
I don’t know what this even means. I think you’re trying to find any difference from crafting in the analogy, relevant or not, so that you can dismiss it, which is a common tactic in debate but not a path I’m really interested in going down.
Every metaphor related to this will have flaws. It’s a complex system with lots of moving parts, but not all moving parts are relevant to the specific question at hand. I wasn’t trying to make a perfect metaphor, just a better one than old engines, which I don’t think really compares at all.
Do you feel like having no FP would improve this in any way? As far as I can tell, the long tail would just happen more quickly. You’d have nearly perfect gear and then nothing at all to grind for. This seems to me to be an independent problem from FP, and if anything, FP helps lengthen the tail a bit.
This is true of some builds for sure, but I’m not sure how removing FP does anything to help resolve the problem. This issue also seems independent of FP to me.
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It would, as I mentioned earlier, with no FP you’d be able to rune of removal any affixes you didn’t want on your items (rare or exalted) & replace them with t5 affixes that you did want. Almost like an item editor, except you’d still be beholden to the vagaries of the rune of removal.
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And if you did remove the wrong one, you could just craft it back on there.
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Assuming it wasn’t the exalted affix.
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If you agree that there’s no reason to have it, and also believe there’s no reason not to have it, then none of it matters, does it?
This is ham handed hyperbole that isn’t useful, and all-or-nothing perspectives are simply not valid. These numbers are all completely made up. They don’t mean anything real. There’s no meaningful difference between “perfect” items and the much more attainable “imperfect” items. There’s nothing you can do with a numerically perfect item that you can’t do without it.
If it really, truly damages your ability to enjoy the game when it’s very unlikely/impossible that you can get mathematically perfect items, you need to be honest with yourself about how dysfunctional your relationship to games is. Because it’s not reasonable to enjoy a game less just because you may not ever get the super best made up numbers.
It shouldn’t significantly affect your mental or emotional state in either direction, man.
There is nothing special about FP compared to any other bit of randomization in loot, so no, it really isn’t. It’s just rabble-rabbling about how it’s so totally a big deal that the biggest possible arbitrary numbers are harder to get than the less big arbitrary numbers being dressed up as something wise. Using 10 dollar words to express a 10 cent idea is not writing well and being articulate.
Making a distinction without a difference is not a valid foundation for an argument.
Silly hyperbole isn’t either.
But what happens when the donkey or the horse eats the carrot before moving? Do you actually accomplish anything? That is the point for the carrot and stick, to keep you moving forward, with the object of your desire just out of reach until you arrive at your destination.
It’s an imaginary carrot. Some people can’t help but think that everything theoretically possible should be achievable given enough grind. People have a problem understanding scale.
Some people here would probably be just giddy if they could waste their life away pointlessly grinding away at an infinitely scaling game with no end, no point, or no real goal. Some ego driven peen measuring mindset that makes them want to brag about how much more of their life they meaninglessly wasted away than others.
Now that I am burnt out on Lost Ark (finally hit 1415, beat Valtan, and… don’t feel like logging back in at all) I’m jumping back into this because I skipped out on the past few updates including the crafting update. Forging Potential feels vastly superior to the previous system, which also feels vastly superior to anything PoE gives us (RNG in RNG in RNG in RNG to maybe get an extra 50 HP or 1k DPS at level 90). IDK if I’ll come up against a wall at some point, but the very nature of these games is going after that next cool item or big upgrade and enjoying the new found power it gives you. Forging Potential feels like the right place to be at least until 1.0 and it can get any needed tweaks. So long as all improvements help streamline, reward, and expand on player’s guiding the experience and process (LE lets you pick your mods, which to level first, etc which is perfect) then I imagine I’ll remain a fan of FP.
There is a ton of potential and many places they can go to expand upon the current crafting implementation and FP is an excellent starting place after the disappointment and headaches of the old system. It feels a lot fairer now and the bad luck less bad/common. It’s a guided system that rewards your grind by making far more items potential upgrades because you can hang on to “good” stuff to better mix and match your affixes across your gear once you have sufficient loot to work with and fill in gaps.
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Yeah but make crafting gambling is a reason I don’t play a lot of games ;). Right now the game is rather easy and you can get a lot done with all T3 gear and some blessings. IF the devs decide to make the game harder everyone and their grannys will see how flawed crafting is because crafting in LE is just a bigger slot machine then in other games.
More on topic… FP is there to remove the ability to have 4xT5 gear at lvl 10 in every slot by throwing enough crafting mats at it and have a lot of luck. These 4xT5 stats aren’t that important anymore because most people chase exalts and uniques with a lot of LP.
If there is a change and Items are crafteable as much as someone want to there is a big downside there as well… the most unskilled players and their grannys will say the game is to easy and will only cry about 1shot mechanics.
To me the most “fun” thing to do is:
- Crafting consumes times/mats rather then luck
- If crafting is easier forget about trade and save time
- If crafting is easier do a balance pass what will use a looot of time
At least I would be happy about rather then possibly wasting 20 of my 20 FP in 2 craft attempts that make a possible great item into vendor trash.
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It doesnt - as you know I am firmly in the “just a game” boat - just using the phrase to illustrate a point that what it does do is make me rethink having fun grinding vs going “nah I have better things to do”. And if I have to make that kind of choice in a game then I move on…
Level requirements are there to prevent that…
In my opinion, Lastepoch and Chronicon are almost the opposite extremes of the same genre, I often praise Last Epoch’s values as “an elegant moderation” when recommending it to others, but Chronicon, wow, it’s almost indulgent and coddling player, I can honestly say it’s the first time I’ve seen Qa damage values in a game of this magnitude —— through the stacking of mechanics rather than the D3 kind of adding 0 to the end of the multiplier
Although this indulgence makes the game’s explorability quickly depleted in the endgame stage, but in the first few dozen hours, the freedom of “any attempt you want to get stronger is feasible”, is not given to me by any other similar games
No, there is no imaginary carrot. It was literally used for centuries to get beasts of burden to do things for us.
The point of the metaphor above was, do you want the reward before accomplishing anything and to have the forge be a pinata of over T24 gear on a whim?
That is what I am meaning. There are things in life that are just out of reach. That does not mean you stop trying based on the cards you are dealt, you get some winning hands some losing hands, and some you push on.
It really went over your head didn’t it?
The “imaginary carrot” is the 4LP legendary with a 4x T7 exalted item. People keep comparing crafting “shortfalls” to that level of gear as if that is even realistic. It isn’t, thus imaginary.
Gear in LE is supposed to be focused on loot drops. Crafting is just to top off items that you find on the ground. The only reason it is even as complex as it is is probably because people kept complaining about it.
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No, it did not go over my head. We are speaking of two parallel thoughts. Our points will not equate or make sense to each other. Since like I said earlier those types of items are not to be the norm, and there seems to be a group of players that think they should be.
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