While it seems you are attempting to be vague to get at certain answers, I think some people in here would very much consider a 0-LP item to be different from a 1-4 LP item. Their line on when they become “different” may vary.
I think in the above example, if you used that LP to add affixes that weren’t on the original item, it would have gotten different results.
Yea, I guess I shouldn’t have used a real example and instead should have manufactured fake ones to get away from this.
And I think it’s less about being vague but rather, trying to isolate variables and ask simple questions.
You also can’t compare like stats like this and get a fair comparison, since this completely negates the players freedom to choose their own stats that LP offers. That’s a very, very powerful advantage with LP.
I fully understand that. I can see that I was not clear at all. I will regroup and make a proper post with better examples. I wasn’t trying to prove a point or anything, I’m just attempting to collect data here.
You missed the opportunity to drive people mad by sneak peeking a new or in the work Unique everyone want in the game yesterday :D.
The 7% block chance difference in the D2 example was pretty far fetched thou :D. 7% difference is like the next base item isn’t it? ^^.
If you get LP items and the right mods rolled on it ^^. I think making such examples is best done without any LP in mind.
It’s monarch vs troll nest, both are elite level shields. Monarch is generally considered the best in most situations. They have different block speeds too so it’s not entirely 1:1
It’s your game, so you get to make the crafting system however you want. If you want it like Diablo, make it like Diablo. It is a popular game, after all.
I’d take a different approach entirely, but that’s not for this thread. 
That said, comparing two items with the same abilities but different “rolls”, to me, would almost always be “the same item”. When making builds, there are a few factors that “enable” builds, which I can summarize as follows:
For #2, a build might require 100% crit immunity and 100% block. I can get those in two items, or I can get them across 6 items + my build tree. I would consider those as two different builds, especially if I had to consume build tree and item affixes that would or could have enabled a whole other “ability” key to the build concept.
However, if I can achieve my build concept with just 2 items, but my build would be slightly stronger if the rolls on those two items were a little higher, maybe allowing me to add a tiny bit of health or mana or something non-build-defining elsewhere as a result, then that’s just “Min Maxing” not build-defining and the better-rolled items would never be something I consider “different items.”
So, really, there isn’t a definitive answer to your question. Sometimes, higher rolls on abilities make or break a build, sometimes they don’t. So, sometimes they are “different items” and sometimes they aren’t.
Yep, that’s about thresholds, really. Like with the old Puncture/Shadow Dagger build. You needed to get 200%(?) Shadow Dagger effectiveness for it to really work properly, so getting that threshold was the priority. You didn’t even consider the other stats on the item(s), unless you could get that threshold with them.
It was 50% for 3 hits, 150% for 2 hits and 250% for 1 hit.
Ah yeah, I misremembered that. I never got mine up and running with the 250%… was busy with another build before I found Boardman’s guide on that one, and the patch was the next day or 2 away :\
I’m honestly waiting for the continuation, the topic is very interesting.
To the question Mike asked: Yes, both are the same item.
You value their unique properties over anything else, mostly 100% chance to block nearby enemies, or L15 Holy Aura when equipped.
These properties set these items aside from others in the same category, the ones with higher rolls are superior, still the lower versions fit the role of “good enough” in order to make a build superior.
Yes, they are the same item, with different rolls, both qualify if you “need” that item.
On topic:
For example: “Ravenous void” (this is an example)
10% chance for 1LP (1 in 10 would have LP, 9 in 10 would not)
then 25% chance for 2LP inside of that 10% chance (compounds into 1 in 40 chance for 2LP)
then 5% chance for 3LP instead (compounds in a 1 in 800 chance for a 3LP)
then NOTHING: 4 LP is blocked for this item.
That would be a goal, quite ridiculous, as getting one at all is hard, but could be a goal, and something to dream for while grinding for it, or leveling another character.
Still you have to smash an appropriate exalted, there’s no “Perfect” item (because 3 T7 perfect rolled affixes in a normal item is not a thing), but you have a feasible target.
Those are my thoughts, anyways. Knowing that an item is possible mathematically but impossible practically when the number is too low (or high in the 1 in X format) to even comprehend, is something that shouldn’t exist, I am not really bothered about it, but in understand some people are.
While the ideas are fine, they still just incrementally push the power higher. Once those become commonplace, the same “outcry” will happen again for the next level of power. There will always be those players that want to be “better” than others and flaunt it. They want the power creep for themselves but not others. I mean, what would be the point if others were able to get it too? They wouldn’t have anything to flaunt at that point. Thus the cycle continues.
The lowering of Forging Potential on gambled gear and normal/magic gear makes crafting a mid-tier upgrade (that is 3 tier 5 affixes you desire) incredibly difficult right now. In fact, it’s upsetting most of the crafting system as I’m now just hoping through multiple layers of RNG in terms of a rare item with the correct
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pikashow
They did this so that you’d want to get most of your gear from mob drops rather than just “farming” the gambler. In addition to capping bases from the gambler at lvl 40(ish).
This is so that when a higher quality item drops its more useful. Previously, the best items to craft on were magic due to having more open slots.
While I don’t think this has any real bearing on the merit of the crafting system, since truly perfect items in this game are, for all practical purposes
Difficult to come by? Exalteds? Legendaries? Don’t tease us here!
As @Llama8 has already pointed out, these changes were made to incentivize drops over just crafting perfect Rare items from Common or Magic items, which was quite easily done in the previous crafting system. However, this has left Common and Magic items basically useless in the mid to endgame gearing process. Mike discusses this unfortunate side-effect and the problems faced with making them more useful within the current crafting system in the dev stream below (watch from 1:21:40 to 1:28:22 – the video should start at the correct time).
There aren’t any plans to change this currently, but they might become more useful sometime in the (probably distant) future. What that looks like is anyone’s guess.
I think it’d be nice if you could “recharge” the FP on an item by gaining experience while the item is equipped. So in essence you can keep working on an item indefinitely but you wouldn’t really be able to do that for the purpose of trading, at least not trading en masse, because the potential to do so is gated by how much time you spend “actually playing the game” with that item. Thoughts? Apologies if this is a bad place for this, it’s my first contribution to these forums. BTW, love the game.
Welcome to the forums… No place is bad, but ideas can get lost if you tag them on other threads (especially long ones like this)… and then the devs may not see a gem…
Was thinking on your idea… I dont like “earning FP” back because the FP concept is already flooded with issues,… But it made me think of actually earning affixes instead… Lets say there was a way to convert an affix (like the current sealing option) but instead once converted, you then have the ability to earn XP for levelling up the affix by using the item… i.e. so long as its wielded, you can make it better… and depending on the xp curve needed, I think that could be a slightly different but have the same end result to your idea…?