Stun Animation. Seriously. This. Is. Not. Good. I cannot express the anger i have at the idea of auto attacks stunning.
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Get stun avoid
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Or just health/ward, or damage reduction in general
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These will work as well
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Putting stun on npc auto attack was probably the worst design choice i have seen in the last ~30 years of gaming. I have 11 seconds of stun immunity after teleport, and around 2700 avoid. I have ward. The concept is horrible. It needs an unconditional DELETE.
Hard to take you seriously with how hyperbolic youāre being.
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No, those would work a lot better than a comparable tier of stun avoidance suffix.
Then why do you ever get stunned?
Youāre definitely doing it wrong then. Maybe if you invested in HP youād not die, or get stunned, from a wet fart?
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Good point.
I hate the level of hyperbole in this post but I actually agree that Stun is a bad mechanic (along with every other form of character control loss) and it should be removed from the game.
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Itās classic CC
You as the player have the ability and the enemies have the same. Thereās ways to alleviate the issue and work around it so it becomes no problem anymore. Itās a lot more dangerous for melee range then ranged characterā¦ but even then it barely poses a problem unless you overextend too far into high corruption levels.
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Factual stats is not an exaggeration
I have no issue with cc. I have an issue with cc being attached to autoattack/cast.
No, I disagree, its classic in perhaps this genre which is notoriously ancient and has tons of design problems.
The stun shit is by far one of the most cringe and antiquated mechanics.
Its just a binary stat check that adds nothing to the game other then āmake sure you get stats to stop thisā
its annoying as hell because monsters/players are not created equal.
Take a game like GW1, CC makes total sense, because the monsters and the players are mostly equal, at very late game monsters exceed level 20, but otherwise are still limited to the same level scaling health and have cooldowns just like the player. the pve is more like less skill based pvp.
In the arpg genre monsters and players have vastly different stat scales and thus using the same rules for both makes no sense imo.
A perfect example of this, is in PoE monsters actually have many attacks hard coded to not stun, because if they did, you would just auto lose unless you are stun immune. Tuls channeling ice barrage can not stun. because it does enough damage per tick to stun you, but the idea is you dont get hit by it for more then a tick or two, since you should be actively dodging it, it hurts alot as a boss attack, but generally you can afford to get tapped by it here or there and not die. if it could stun, it would just be a bullet hell where if you make a single mistake you get stunned into death. The devs realize they cant have the monsters stun in these situations, it would be unfair to the player.
Stuns just feel so nonsense and binary I really dont think they should be in the game. I dont think it will ever change, but god the mechanic is so frustrating.
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Since many enemies only have a singular attack it would mean removal of the mechanic by itself.
So nah, it has its place and mandates to not make extremely low life builds. Also itās an indicator if the content you run is too much for your build right away or notā¦ beyond simply falling down on the ground dead.
Yes, just likeā¦ resistancesā¦ just likeā¦ armorā¦ just likeā¦
Itās one of the things you need to build around.
They donāt. Scaling for mobs and players is different. Also itās there to affect your minions too at half strength to not make completely glass-cannon minionsā¦ even if the design currently fails a bit in providing that properly.
Stun is one of the most dangerous mechanics in PoE, characters do a lot to become stun immune in the game since itās one of the most common reasons to die, and unlike LE you can become stunlocked there.
The exception is made for some mechanics, but itās not the norm to exist. Like Tulās which is extremely dangerous even without the stun to it.
There are exactly zero factual stats in these statements and they are pure hyperbole.
Iām aware. CC on players has always been bad design that does not belong in any PVE game, IMO.
Thats not the way it functionally works. For example, one of the current problems is there are monoliths that have āprotect this while xā. The spawns are not properly done. They are instantiated on click of that object instead of at the creation of the instance and pooled after. In game design its standard practice to load all the instantiation at the creation of the instance / scene and then to use a search of move npc/disable or enable.
because of this setup you get ālag spikesā that happen on click. That resorts in multiple attacks at one, which means an almost promised stun while in a period of lag. Even if you are not talking about the spawn issue, you still get the same. More mobs = more chances of stun. Its not a good mechanicā¦ No, its a horrible one.
Im gona be forward and call out my intuition on this and say that this statement is largely due to the withheld āwe dont wanna make it casualā Approach. That is intellectual dishonesty (for starters).
Second and more importantlyā¦ You dont need stun mechanics to mandate low like builds, or even validate them more. You can simply do things like āward only blocks 90% (or some other value) of damageā. That would force people to stack life as well.
Lastly on this point, Many people complain about it. If the cry of EHG is to make a game that people like it can start by removing a meaningless, horrible mechanic that many people complain about.
Resist, Armor and the life do not provide extremely negative conditions of gameplay. There is a different between āi need to build thisā and āthis is out of my control, im frustrated and gona quitā.
A good designer understands that design is not just mechanical operation, but also includes the intellectual process attached to the game, and the emotional response that comes out of it. This has extremely negative emotional response and minimal intellectual interaction. In other words it has 1/3 of the conditions (at best) for good design, and that is ābad designā.
I tend to dispise stun in LE because scaling stun resist seems to not be effective. It seems almost a meme, i can run 1000 stun avoidance, and still be stunned, because the way that swarms work anything short of 100% stun resist is irrelevent for if i get swarmed the numbers suggest i will get stunned and then mauled to death.
A simple solution to this is to add constelations to LE like in grimdawn. These would let you add flat % to various stats and maybe auras. Here is some i would like to see
-100% stun avoidance for 2s after a malee attack [aura] costs 1%hp per second
-convert [dot] to haste for 1s, max stack 10, for [rMB] cooldown of 1s
-
100% resist to [pick 1 [poison, bleed, frost chill, shock etc] for 1s for parry/deflect/dodge
-
gain stacks of evasion [+10% dodge max stacks 10] for blocking/parry
-
at cost of 25% max hp, add 150ms i-frame to all traversal skills
See these are too, but they also dont remove the mechanic. Resistances are not ābuild them or loseā Atleast in this game. Nor is armor. You can simply choose to ignore armor. And heck, armor has a non linear progression! so getting a little armor is pretty good! its not āhave this or loseā
Getting stunned is pretty much instantly losing. Thats why its different.
Resistances in this game are really well designed, they are a good defensive layer that does not require full investment. Having 0 will get you killed, but having only 40% wont be the end of the world if you have other really strong defenses lined up.
I also think we cant ignore the game feel problems presented by stun. its is probably one of the most gross feeling mechanics. getting stunned literally never feels good. When I die to a slam or a beam or some other ādont stand in big circleā I go āwow I deserved that, I need to play betterā
when a enemy spawns on you ala snake man, you hear ting and you cant do anything and simply fall over, the gameplay is āoh sorry you simply didnt build the correct do nothing stat for this one niche mechanic hahaā
like imagine we made a stat on gear called āpurityā if your purity is lower then corruption, you take the difference in % as extra damage. The stat does nothing other then punishing you for not having it. Do you think this is a good stat? it makes gearing harder as now you must balance for this stat.
But in reality its just an extremely boring way to attempt to punish how players build. Trust me, stun does not need to exist to punish low health/low defense builds, they will get one shot to plenty of things without stun. Heck even on like 3-4k hp builds with decentish armor, if you fuck up you can die without getting stunned.
I legit think they could remove stun from the game and the things that kill people would still kill people.
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No but itās so much better now that you can get health AND stun avoidance on two whole items, right?
Right?
Itās not just boring, IMO. Itās uncreative almost to the point of being lazy. Think of a better way to threaten me than full on stopping me from being able to do anything.
Just yesterday, I read a thread from someone who thought resistances are horrible and should be removed from the game. Where does it end?
First off, good and bad are subjective.
Dark Souls was made successful by fostering frustration. It makes the victory just the sweeter.
As for an intellectual challenge - stun is part of the puzzle to create your character. A puzzle needs a few pieces to be interesting. In a stat-based RPG game, some intellectual challenges can be as simple as making sure your character gets all the stats you want or need.
As a mechanic, stun or other CCs are one of the big threats in the game. CC can endanger you when otherwise only one-shots will get you. Different methods of sustainability prevent that monsters grind you down slowly by smallish hits.