Thats the best part, building stun avoidance in my honest opinion is a joke and a meme.
Take for example, a player with 2k health, who takes a 500 damage hit, as per the formula, their chance to be stunned is.
(2 x 500 x 1/2250) - 0.1 = 0.34, or if my math is correct 34% chance to be stunned by that hit.
if we add a staggering 2250 stun avoidance we get
(2 x 500 x 1/4500 - 0.1) = 0.12 or 12% to get stunned.
I am still getting stunned 1/10th of the time. if we wanna talk about how shit dodge is, stun avoidance is some dooky trash.
its simply always better to invest in defenses/ward/health to create a big pool to reduce the stun chance at a baseline, the stun avoidance stat is simply âfakeâ health that does nothing but prevent stuns.
Now, I can understand why stuns exist, I just think they are done extremely poorly and shouldnt be some shotgun rng mechanic and instead be moves which stun you if you get hit, and you should attempt to not get hit by them as to not take follow up hits. if you eat a telegraphed stun thats on you.
Stuns problem lies in its inherent randomness and inability to account for it.
Yes, but the solution for that is to change said mechanic to frontload those entities rather then changing a in-game mechanic to make it suddenly work.
Otherwise we go towards the âlogout macroâ issue which PoE has, making a mechanic around a situation which they couldnât get under control, hence reducing the need to get said situation further under control. Because now you got a convenient excuse that you have a mechanic in place which circumvents the issue.
This is something which is also never allowed to happen as it provides a dangerous precedence and causes a game to stagnate.
Itâs not without reason that GGG only now - after LE has been released - starts to mass implement QoL features which shouldâve been available since⌠well⌠the conception of the mechanics getting âQoLâ changes.
Let them make a poll then. It would be indicative of the actual numbers and not a loud minority in a forum.
Itâs why itâs a suggestion forum. They look at it, then decide if itâs even a viable point, then put it on a priority list of they deem it viable and if itâs very high priority they either change something or make a poll if it goes against their usual methodology.
EHG has proven that capability already to adhere to the majority voice of the players. They shouldnât always do it but in some situations they should.
So if it goes up then you have your answer for that.
True, they avoid those negative conditions. The most severe one being âdeathâ and hence loss of reward or time.
Stun is a in-built mechanic with the same premise, just shorter-term. If you donât handle it you are threatened with the death of your character and hence loss of reward or time.
Exactly! Stun also is not a âtake care of it or loose situationâ. Actually quite the contrary. You get stunned if you get a large hit comparatively to your life pool.
Whatâs the solution? Damage mitigation or increase of said life pool.
Thereâs a lot of options to reduce or in very rare cases even avoid stuns.
The system shouldnât be removed⌠it needs some work definitely in the current state, wonât deny that. But outright removal?
Thatâs quite a tall ask to make!
You got to have a very very severe reason to make that happen.
Not just in your oppinion, itâs a objectively bad stat on any item. The amount of upsides it has is far outstripped by the negatives of not choosing another affix in the first place, especially ones which take care of stuns more then actual stun avoidance which should be specialized for exactly that.
I think for me, I ask the question of why rework a system that simply exists to frustrate the player?
Resistances, Armor, Health are the inverse to damage, you build them to not die. I dont think anyone is ever tackling the health vs more damage equation going âwhat does this do to stunâ
Stuns is just some rng dice mechanic that exists because some old guy 30 years ago was like âyeah if you get hit you have a chance to get stunned!â it probably has roots in countering spell casters ala Dungeons and Dragons. You need to make concentration checks to cast when getting hit in combat, and mobs get attacks of opportunity on you.
This is because casting is inherently more powerful then traditional physical arms, so needs restrictions.
Thats literally all it is imo, I really dont think its some deep constructed mechanic anyone has actively thought about in a good while.
Like I said, I think the other games in the genre, mostly PoE where you can completely become immune to stun fairly easily it just showcases how little stun actually matters at stopping glass cannons or forcing balanced builds. the bad squishy builds will die regardless of being stunned.
They just wont be as pissed off about constantly getting a jarring rng mechanic happening. and if they are good enough and just dont get hit by ranged abilities, they wont die as often.
like its one of the areas many of these games can and should modernize.
like heck, I feel like once you are passed initial gearing stun isnt even a problem, thats even more reason for it to not exist. its just an annoying early game system that frustrates players and makes them not want to progress because they are having their agency of movement removed.
I would caution against relying on player feedback as it had lead to a death of many games. Specifically it leads to a crab in the bucket mentality. Wizard101 and pirate101 are easy to name examples of huge games brought to extinction by listening to players, and same can some what be argued for Grimdawn [great game, but vastly inferior to TQ]
I could get into a long list of games, instead i will explain why feedback is often useless
1] players do not have a clue about game design, and no clue about how to make a good game. Why they enjoy said game, and how changes to X/Y would effect it.
2] players are biased, we already have seen that in the survey, those who exploited bugs will champion them to not be removed for very obvious reasons
3] players may want to gate keep or trick others for any reason [fun, to make gold, for content, for trolling, for pushing an agenda, for curating points with devs etc]
4] casuals and hardcore have different preferences which are mostly incompatible. And hardcore players tend to be more vocal, while having less numbers. The result is a growing rift between the two, and ends up killing the game.
In general people are fickle creatures, and adults only differ to childreen in that childreen have no rights to vote, adults can and often have superiority complexes which makes them unreliable and useless. Why a good developer is like a good politican or scientist, they ignore the people otherwise they would bring the world to ruin, in this analogy the game.
Iâll argue thatâs not the case. Depending on your class itâs a very high investment to get actually stun immune, many not ever going for it since the âpriceâ to do so would be very high. Either in not picking other nodes which have more overall effect or actively giving up a item slot which can be used for many useful affixes empowering the build both offensive and defensive.
It has been mentioned here before, itâs a mechanic which provides another puzzle-piece to make a build work. If you get stunned repeatedly youâve failed to create a character which can tackle the mechanic in a proper manner⌠since itâs not an issue for most builds at all.
Is it properly implemented currently? Nah, not with stun avoidance in the state it is, also the baseline math behind it needs a bit of extra work. But is it a âbad mechanicâ by design? Also nah, absolutely not. Itâs a darn huge danger you should do your best to work around even if it means giving up something else to a degree.
Thatâs why the first step was for EHG to even take it into consideration, their philosophy stands above the majority of the community as the core premise of the game has meaning and should be adhered to.
So if they decide itâs best for the game itâs also nothing which would ever get a poll for in the first place.
I dont really want this to get out but it turns out resist have as much impact as they do in s1 d4. Nothing.
Eh, Partially agree (but generally agree).
Dark souls was never successful, and frustration (things in the control of people, Example: super meatball boy) is good. Annoyance (like stun in LE; Ie things out of control) is not. Actually annoying things are extremely bad.
Again, I have no problem with stuns. I have a problem with stuns on auto attack.
It spawned a franchise with tens of millions copies sold, got a remaster. I would consider that successful. What metric do you use to decide it wasnât? Pretty sure From Software is happy.
Other people have problems with one-shots. With off-screen attacks. With poison-stacks. With dot-fields. Basically, anything that can endanger their character.
Removing stun trivializes those rather basic attacks from the swarm-type enemies further until they are scaled into one-shot territory.
I have no issue with re-thinking game mechanics and design choices. Instead of calling for a remove (even if just from auto-attacks), people should start to consider a replacement.
Something that has engagement, less annoyance, maybe more active components.
Like a stun-meter that builds from all hits and decays slowly over time. After the stun-meter passes a threshold, the chance to be stunned starts and raises with the meter.
The character can be passively built around the stun-meter (threshold increase, faster passive decay) or actively (skills that remove X from the stun-meter on hit or on heal, on potion use, etc.)
Idea might be crap, made it up on the fly, probably inspired from stuff I saw in other games.
But if people only ask for removes, the game would be hollowed, soon.
You are free to like the game, no problem. A game with less than 2k players after so many (~27 million) copies sold is an evidence the game was not successful (well not by favor anyways)
Can we give all mobs leech &/or insane ward gen as well then? Fairâs fair!
Not given your second post, no. You say youâre getting 11 seconds of stun immunity every 4-5 seconds then complaining about being stunned. Either one of those things is wrong or itâs a skill issue, sorry.
Despite being immine to it or because of the immunity?
While Iâm not a fan of stun, youâre either being slightly economical with the truth or not using the massive tool you have to completely ignore the thing youâre complaining about.
Thatâs because stun avoidance is worse than just using a health suffix instead.
100%. Stuns and other player targeted control loss/interrupt mechanics are nothing more than cutting off the ends of the ham that donât belong in modern games.
Yes, I assumed he wasnât too far off the mark when he mentioned 11 seconds of stun immunity on a 4-5 second cooldown, which just leaves option #2 for why he was getting stunnedâŚ
I explained why i was getting it. IT was odd-ball Lag caused by the end of monoliths objectives instantiating mobs (creating them) instead of creating them and enabling their existence after clicking the target âchargeâ or âdefendâ objective. Since the creation seems to either 1) lag the server or 2) lag the game (by cpu use) its causing odd situations where multiple mobs spawn and kill you in those lag moments.
However, i experienced the same issue on shaman/druid and it does not have that immunity. Its annoying and needs to go asap.
Not at all. Maybe you just want a game where you walk into the zone press 1 button and be showered with loot without any difficulty. You can make your own game the way you want without ruining this one.
I swear weâve had this exact conversation before.
Itâs an allegory about people doing things based on tradition without considering whether itâs still relevant. In this case, the story goes that several generations of women learn to cut the ends off of a ham before cooking it, because thatâs how their mother taught them, and eventually the youngest woman learns from her great grandmother that it was just because she was poor and had a very small oven, and it was the only way the ham would fit in it.
