How do YOU plan to break multiplayer?

[An_Actual_Typhoon]

After reading through the latest round of multiplayer announcements, how do you plan to optimize the the system to your advantage?
I’m not talking about cheats, hacks or exploits, but legal behavior which the devs might not have thought about. What kinds of experiments are you planning to run? What game systems will you be poking at and how? What are some questions you have about what a party can do with 4 players running around that 1 player can’t do on their own?
No design survives contact with the players, and I’m hoping that this thread can raise awareness about some of the bizarre lengths players might go to in order to level or loot more efficiently.

Experiment 1:
We know that the more enemies that are killed in an echo, the more loot the echo chest grants. Is the bonus applied to the entire party no matter who killed the enemies? If it is, should we split the party up within an echo, have 3 members kill as many monsters as possible while heading in a separate direction, and have the 4th race straight to the goal to close the echo?
If the kill bonus is on a per-player basis, does that mean fast-moving AOE builds will be granted 90% of the bonus loot and anyone else gets comparatively little? This might feel bad in a pickup group with strangers. “Hey! Don’t hog all the enemies!”

Experiment 2:
Players may share any loot that drops with members that were in the party at the time the loot drops. Does this include purchased items? Can 3 members give all of their junk uniques/exalts to a 4th, have them sell stuff to become very rich, and then stay behind in town and have them gamble until they get a unique that someone else in the party needs while the other 3 are off running echoes?

Experiment 3:
We know that bazaar shops will be randomized to discourage external trading. Are the bazaar shops being displayed unique to the player or does the entire party see the same collection of bazaar shops? How often do they refresh? Can I refresh the shops if I log out and log back in, hunting for an item with specific properties? Does that mean I can hop in Discord with buddies, each sign in as we all look for a specific bazaar item a party member needs, and then have the group join a person’s party when they find the bazaar item so that someone else can purchase it?

Multiplayer info links:
July 2021 Dev Update
Multiplayer FAQ
Multiplayer Progress for July 2021

[An_Actual_Typhoon]

Random thoughts:
How about ultrabuff minion builds? Necro armies backed by paladins spamming buffs?

Everyone in the party can revive everyone else, making for a safety net that single players don’t have.
Because anyone can revive anyone else’s companions, primalists no longer have to worry about having to move to a suboptimal location on the battlefield if another player is nearby. I don’t think I like this thematic disconnection from what is supposed to feel like a close relationship between the primalist and their animal companion.

More people moving around the world means more influence and awareness over a wider portion of the world. If random events are implemented, the odds of four players triggering an event are higher than one person triggering an event. The player who finds the event pings the group and everyone joins in.
More awareness also means that people can search timelines more efficiently for specific echo types: “Everyone split up and load into a timeline. If you see an exalted echo, ping the rest of the party so we can all join you.”

[Zaodon]

Scan every ability which has the word “allies” in it, and go from there…

[TRiceTheEffort]

I was simply thinking of having a very organized group to clear the content. One smaller AoE nuke build (Think Glacier, Meteor, Warpath, etc), a build to group mobs (zDPS Paladin or Forge Guard with WP spec’d to pull all mobs in), a healer/flex slot (Think necro with Dread Shade aura buffs or a primalist using entangling roots to heal), and a single target build (SS Beastmaster or LB or VO sorc).

This group would move together, have mobs grouped up for easy AoE clear, and have someone to clean up the tankier mobs as well as shred bosses.

The succadin would use The Last Laugh for up to 24% cull, and would also use the 2h WP nodes to be able to cast spells like Holy Aura, Sigils of Power (instant cast spec), Ring of Shields, etc.

The flex is just that, but I envision a high hp minion with Dread Shade aura buff for massive armor and damage given to the party, and have some way to drain their own life so Poison Aura can be used to heal in AoE.

The other two DPS roles are self explanatory. If MP was live this patch you would likely use EQ bear and SS Beast master as your AoE and Single Target DPS builds.

Edit: Another potential for the flex spot is a channeling Sorc using Focus to target party members. Flame Ward can also be spec’d to target allies IIRC, so there is some potential. Possibly better for this to be added to an AoE clear sorc to give the Single Targer clearer infinite mana, allowing for more variety in skills to choose from for this role.

[Zaodon]

Standard Bleed Warpath Paladin, modified slightly:

• added some Armor Shred to help allies
• added Divine Bolts which heal allies

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/5BxwWdQv

[An_Actual_Typhoon]

Is there any documentation for how “on kill” effects trigger in multiplayer? I see your Valdyr’s Chalice has an on-kill heal. I wonder if it triggers if your paly isn’t the one to take the enemy to 0.
Hopefully it works more like a tagging system where the game remembers all party members/pets that did damage to an enemy and procs on-kill no matter who finishes it off.

[Llama8]

@An_Actual_Typhoon

Is there any documentation for how “on kill” effects trigger in multiplayer? I see your Valdyr’s Chalice has an on-kill heal. I wonder if it triggers if your paly isn’t the one to take the enemy to 0.

I’m sure that will need to be clarified during MP testing.

[Shrukn]

@An_Actual_Typhoon

how do you plan to optimize the the system to your advantage?

This is why I dislike Multiplayer and probably wont play it at all, people like you go into it with the goal of optimising/breaking the game to your whims and then ultimately having it nerfed for everyone else who just wants some innocent party play - its totally degenerate gameplay to me

@An_Actual_Typhoon

What are some questions you have about what a party can do with 4 players running around that 1 player can’t do on their own?

There should be nothing of the sort

Infact all of your ‘Expirments’ is for me ammunition to never go near MP

[Fragtal]

I don’t get where you are coming from. Identifying ways to break multiplayer in a supervised game forum
enables EHG to create amore balanced multiplayer experience. If anything the guy is doing you a favor.

[Llama8]

Which is fair enough, but min-maxin is a fairly common view point in computer games. There’s even a genre built around it (Factorio).

@Fragtal I think Shrukn just wants to chill & have fun, not break out his kid’s ADHD meds & go to town on optimising his dps/etc while demanding a particular group comp to serve him.

[Fragtal]

Yes, re-reading makes it clear when he calls optimizing degenerate gameplay.

I personally don’t have the patience to optimize to the ultimum. But one main aspect of the genre is find builds and loot to clear higher content. Some players strive for it more, some less.

[An_Actual_Typhoon]

I play fairly casually myself.
The reality is that if it is possible for players to do something in a game, they will. I’m sure the devs are already well aware that people will try to break their system. The goal of this thread is to get some of those ideas out in the open so that they can be designed around now instead of becoming fatal flaws later.
It should also raise some questions about what types of information partied players are interested in knowing. For instance, the on-kill effects listed in Zaodon’s build above. It would be helpful to add such information to the in-game guide instead of relying on players leaving the game to search through forums.
Some players will fight through the campaign once and be done with LE. Some will go straight to Youtube and copy the most powerful build they can find for empowered monoliths. Others will experiment with systems just for the joy of seeing how mechanics interact with each other.
I encourage you to have fun playing the game in your own way.

[Zaodon]

I’d like to post something I’ve said in forums of other games I’ve played.

The term “exploit” is an overloaded term. It’s fair to say most players think of illegal activity when they hear that word. But that is not necessarily the case. The definition of the word is “make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).”

The problem comes when a player uses a bug in this manner. That is what makes the “exploit” illegal. If it is not a bug, then there is no illegal activity. HOWEVER - if it trivializes the game/content, then it is at least “unhealthy” for the game, and I’m sure the game designers (EHG in this case) would want to know so they can adjust classes, abilities, items, etc. to account for that interaction.

So, in the long run, players who do NOT exploit bugs, but DO exploit interactions of the existing game design, and who also are OPEN about it on forums/to the Devs, are ultimately a good thing for the health of the game.

[An_Actual_Typhoon]

@An_Actual_Typhoon

Is there any documentation for how “on kill” effects trigger in multiplayer?

I received an answer to this from Mike during a dev stream. On-kill will retain the same mechanics as it does in single player.
He did point out that lately skills have been shifting away from “when you kill an enemy” to “when a nearby enemy is killed.” This will keep the same flavor of death fueling a power while not having to worry about who in your party gets the last hit.

[Mike_Weicker]

Just to clarify what I think I said in stream (or at least what I meant) was that when appropriate, like with the necromancer, we sometimes use when something dies nearby instead of on-kill.

We are just shiftng away from kill effects in general. Not 100% getting rid of them, just less popular than they once were.

[Shtrak]

If I remember well, you even said it doesn’t has to be an enemy. It could be one of the minions dying.

[Mike_Weicker]

Well, in multiplayer, it could even be another player.

[Zaodon]

Google: [ How to kill other players Last Epoch ]

…

[Mike_Weicker]

You don’t, enemies do. The node I was referring to says, whenever something dies nearby.

[Zaodon]

I know Mike, I was just joking. I personally hate both consensual PvP and, of course, griefing. But it is funny to think of benefiting from your teammates death in some way.