which post was your other post? because i don’t have something against you as a person, if the idea is good, i’ll support it, if they can give me something to do that’s entertaining the whole way up, i don’t mind how long it takes to get to level cap (sorta like FF14) but if i finish the story at level 55 and have to spend the next 45 levels doing the same thing i’ll be doing at level 100, i’d rather just be level 100.
having long-term goals doesn’t “cater only to” hardcore players. It just gives them a reason to keep playing your game. Having a difficult-to-achieve level cap doesn’t hurt casuals in any way shape or form, because most builds should be able to do all content way before 100. There need to be long-term goals in this game, that’s how it will compete with other ARPGS with aggressive dev cycles and similar gameplay loops. Otherwise, you’ll end up with a D3 situation where your game declines in popularity over time as opposed to growing. They want to support LE for years and years to come. Who among the hardcore ARPG community would want to keep playing if there are no long-term goals that appeal to them?
The story is and always has been meant to be your entry-point into the end game, not the core chunk of its content. People play ARPGS because progression is exciting. Each level should mean something. If you just get an instant pass to max level, you exclude a massive % of the ARPG player base who want to feel that progression and something to grind for. The more goals we take out of the game, the less appealing it will be to people.
Exactly this!
Some random dad shouldn’t hit 100
Level 100 isn’t designed for casual play. It’s designed as a time sink for end end game progression.
Ultra casual gamers nowadays want instant, easy access to everything a game has to offer and it’s kind of ruining games. Look at d3. With power leveling you can hit max level and like 800 paragon in an hour. Who finds that fun other than ultra casual players? That’s probably why the only people left playing it are ultra casual players and a few hundred ultra hardcore people pushing GRs every season for a few days until the exact same gameplay loop that’s existed since RoS came out get’s boring again.
To some extent you are right but it depends for what type of player / customers this game is mainly developed for. I didnt say I want everything instantly but if you make reaching lvl 100 significantly longer you ll design a game for nolifers. Casual players might loose interest in playing the game as the might never reach the endgame and be successful in it.
I think it is good as it is right now but I think a lot will change with the next content updates.
A similiar system like paragon levels in D3 might help although I dont love it tbh. Maybe the devs have different ideas alrdy.
i mean, that’s what the arena is tho… like, be the guy who dumped 1000 hours into the game and now has the perfect gear down to the stat, refined their strategy, theorycrafted, and got to the top… the game already has that, i don’t know what compounding the leveling experience does for the longevity of the game, other than keeping the casuals away from the one competitive system that’s been implemented so far. this would be even more of an issue if there wasd a level 100 tier of items, but at least at the moment, there isn’t and thus the game sort of caps out at level 80~ for most players, outside of those last few talent points, of course.
D3’s last expansion was 7 years ago, i don’t think the games decline has much to do with the gameplay loop…
well yeah, but you’re making a split argument now between end game systems being long term goals, and most of the content being in the leveling experience. like i said, give me something to do that’s enjoyable, i’ll play your game and not be bothered how high my number is, but once i hit that “end game loop” then i should reasonably expect to have an “end game character”
i agree, and arbitrarily making it take longer to level makes each level up to the point where you can participate in the competitive system means you are barring it to casual players who just want to enjoy playing a video game.
then you should be advocating for the devs to put in more content from 55-100, not bloating out those levels because it pleases the hardcore players who want level 100 to be an exclusive club.
I’d argue level cap isn’t a goal, it’s the rule. if this was a game with infinite levels (and i don’t mean paragons, i mean literally infinite player levels, you get full level stats, talent points, and power every time then of course you’d want the leveling curve to get exponentially more difficult as players got more and more, because that extra power would matter, but the systems this game is built on means there is a finite amount of stats and resources you can accrue, many of which stop coming in at level 100, at which point your character can now compete in the only currently implemented competitive system, so why would you bother stalling them from progression, just to fullfill some personal fantasy of making them “feel” it?
Again, wrong, elitist, and has no place in this game. As a casual dad, I should be able to reach level cap in the same amount of /played hours as anyone else. It will just take me longer to reach those hours than someone who plays 16 hrs/day. Like, literally, 8 times longer (@ 2 hrs/night). So, the amount of days it should take me to hit the cap should be where EHG balances the game. Then, the no-lifers will hit cap 8 times faster then me, but that’s ok, because they do nothing but play a video game, and they exhaust it’s fun. That’s on them, not on us. We shouldn’t be penalized for their choices.
max level in 15 minutes, 800 paragons takes about a day and a half.
I am not sure how to get around the mindset of a casual gamer who sees level 100 as the cap and expects to just "get’ it. I do think though that we are lucky the game has so much to offer (or at least will) for all types of players to where level 100 is just 1 small piece of the puzzle (like it should be).
In my mind, level 100 isn’t something I feel like I personally deserve or will ever achieve. I play PoE and I’ll add that I am a super hardcore player. I do all content every league, but the 98-100 grind is too much for me. I’d rather make a new build and play the game differently, or try a different farm strat or spend time doing off-league content than mindlessly grinding 5-way conflicts or breach stones or 800 t16 maps (without dying) for a few days. That’s a personal preference that I am given the privilege to have because there are so many other things to do. Level 100 hasn’t been necessary for me since beta in PoE a single time to one of my builds, and it definitely isn’t a crucial part of the gameplay loop. That being said, some people like pushing for 100 every league, some people do it on multiple characters. Those are the people who don’t mind grinding the boring content to hit it, and they should have that opportunity because it’s the way they like to play.
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Much faster in party carry. A few hours at best.
And even solo can be only 2-4 days to 800.
I couldn’t agree more and God how I hate the elitism this thread represents. If the devs build the game around that kind of thinking it will not succeed. There are not nearly enough of those kind of players to pay the bills.
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depends on how many friends you got, and how late you’re starting the season. most people don’t have 3 hyper geared leaderboard pushing 140 speedrunning friends to carry them to 800 in a few hours, and if they did, those friends spent way longer getting to that point earlier in the season. at the moment, a carry to 70 and one level 100 GR gets you 250 paragons, then it becomes logarithmically more difficult to level from that point (lets say you just sat there and spammed 100’s) it’d take about 40 runs to get to 800, which doesn’t sound like a lot, but you also have to run normal rifts to get keystones, do the season journey for your entry set, there are some hoops, but that’s not the point. i’m definitely not advocating this game be like diablo, but that doesn’t mean that diablo didn’t have good ideas to steal.
You aren’t penalized because level 100 is a long term goal that isn’t designed for you and its 10000000% not necessary for ANYONE PLAYING THE GAME. It seems like you feel entitled to every single piece of progression and content in a game no matter how it’s designed or
how much time you spend on it.
It’s just a simple fact about life that the people who dedicate more time to something generally end up being better and more successful at it. This isn’t candy crush where the playing field is level and I firmly believe it shouldn’t be. That would be going completely against the genre and the type of game that this is. MOST games are designed for people to have to sink a bunch of time into them to progress and get better, and ARPGS tend to be on the grindier side of things. There isn’t anything wrong with that, and there isn’t anything wrong with you as a dad not getting whatever you want by default.
(unless you want to compete in the arena)
True, but the other poster wrote “With power leveling you can hit max level and like 800 paragon in an hour.”, not normal play.
I play season in D3 only for 3-4 days in the last years, solo, not fully minmax hardcore optimized, and can get to 750 or 800+ in that time.
fair, but again, it’s not how fast you got there that made you lose interest in the game, it’s how the game hasn’t been given any new content in 7 years that made you lose interest in the game. if you played reaper of souls on release, i bet you spent a lot more time in it than you do now. if this game doesn’t have a content drop for 7 years, then it would naturally deserve to die as well, but if that ends up being the case, it would likely be because the devs moved on to other projects, which means content was still being created, it just wasn’t here. the longevity of this game will have incredibly little to do with the leveling experience, and everything to do with how well it does monetarily to invoke a continuous investment of development resources to constantly increase the amount of content.
i’ve been worried lately that this game probably hasn’t taken in much money over the last year, as many of the faces i see on this forum have been here since i started in may 2020, so the devs might be running low on resources that may be an unspoken reason for why things seems to be slow right now.
I feel like the problem isn’t getting to 100 being too fast, it’s feeling like you’re capped out or done and have nothing else to do. That to me says the loot grind or endgame isn’t really functioning and keeping you engaged.
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There’s the lie. I said already, in print, that it should take me and the kiddie the same amount of /played hours to get the same things. But you then had to lie and say I want things given to me with no effort.
So, lets address this post.
- This is a game, is shouldn’t require any effort in the first place. So lets not use that concept again.
- Keeping players playing is a factor of content and time, not how many hours/day you play.
- Devs should be focussed on new content all the time anyway, so there’s no change there for EHG.
- The time to level cap (or any other end-game goal you want to discuss) should be balanced around the dads, not the kiddies with no life, because we’re the majority of video game market (well, those 22-40, I believe, last I looked. And we all have jobs.)
If EHG does that, then the 16 hr/day people should get those things 8 times faster, and as a result, quit 8 times faster.
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I agree with this, like i’ve been trying to make the point, what you do at end game is the same exact thing you’re doing starting at level 55 when the current story ends. if it’s not engaging enough to go to 100 naturally right now, making leveling take longer on that same exact system will only drive players away.
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Presumably there will be 10-20,000 players on launch, hopefully eventually many more. Do you want to compete, as a dad with only 4-5 hours a week to play, with the very top 100 players? Hey, what If I play basketball at the park twice a week, should I try out for the NBA and get try to change the system if I can’t make it?