If… for myself it’s 20 days each getting the toon to empowered mono at arround 300 corruption. As for my last spriggan I played to 85 or something I played the last 20h without getting a usefull drop. Sure there have been exaltet items i might use for LP if I find a fitting unique with LP but nothing to equip. i toyed arround with drops and glyphs of chaos and tried my best but not even 1 usefull item.
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If there will be some change on this new crafting system, I hope “decarburization system” rather than tweaking FP value.
Because if player consume 12 FP, they will feel bad-crafting system anyway even if teaking FP value 1-14 to 1-12.
The value changes will not so important for dissatisfied user to this new crafting system, maybe I think.
My suggestion, for example, it keep FP value “1” on "only"1 time if the FP below 0 result of crafting.
The crafting of immediately before is of course success, and the remaining 1 FP can using Rune of discovery or manual affix gamble, if the exalted item is not full affixs slot, or it makes chance of using Rune of Creation, and it will give us “conscious” leave some room for Legendary Item.
If it thinking in detail, it will may contains some problem… but I hope introducing the system like this.
But it’s not that below level 80 crafting is crap, lvl 80-90 crafting is ok and above it’s a good system.
There is a curve involved that automatically affects people and their drops. Its slowly increasing. Item quality and crafting potential grows along with character progression. And even a casual player can reach lvl 80+ within 3 months.
Most casual players are players that don’t care that much about a game to invest the majority of their lifetime into it or they are passionate players that just don’t have enough time to dive in.
I see a lot of people talking about casual players as if they were just to dumb to play and understand the game and therefore need a special treatment.
Just because somebody plays casually doesn’t mean he expects the imba endgame loot showers during half of the story. Why should we get loot that let’s us cheese the content? Because we are afraid that a casual player that might not have the chance to experience a fully fleshed out character for endgame with high end gear would miss that feeling?
Early/midgame is only a percentage of the whole game experience. It’s part of the original experience to grow the character, turn him into a machine. But doing the steps and going from zero to hero is necessary to appreciate the power you get endgame. So it’s not a bad thing that crafting is not as good midgame than endgame. its absolutely ok as long as it is balanced and supports your overall gaming experience.
I think for me this is exactly the issue with the new crafting system. I couldn’t said it any better.
Its true though, its not just him. Even people who agree on your side of the fence say the same thing ‘2 crafts and youre done’. Not constructive with thinly veiled insults.
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The “two crafts and you’re done” argument is weird to me for two reasons:
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This was exactly my biggest problem with the old system. Breaking something on the first or second craft when I still had 90%+ chance to succeed happened so much. It happens so much less in the new system which is why I think those who are upset about only getting a few crafts in should actually prefer this system over the previous one.
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Related to the first, being finished with a craft after two attempts happens so rarely, even on blues, that I get the feeling people are just doing a simple math problem or got unlucky a few times early to reach this conclusion. I think a lot of people are seeing that they have an item with 20 potential and a craft with a range of 1-20 and thinking that the average must be 10, so therefore they’re only going to get two crafts. here is why that’s not correct and your average is actually going to be much higher:
- The average craft skews lower - The devs have confirmed that although the range might be 1-20, the average craft will skew in the lower range, meaning even if you did nothing to alter the craft in your favor, you would still average more than two crafts in the above scenario because the average will actually be somewhere below 10. In my personal experience over hundreds of crafts now, it’s quite a bit lower, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s closer to 5.
- Critical success happens…a lot - and every time it does, you get two free crafts since it not only gives you the craft you went for for free but also upgrades another tier on the item.
- Glyph of hope gives you a free craft 25% of the time - and you can use it liberally since it’s a common drop. No need to horde these, even on SSF.
These three layers of positive rng mean the average craft on even a rather low 20 forging potential item is still much more than 2 crafts. If I had to guess based on experience, I would probably place it closer to 5-7, and I use chaos liberally so on an item that doesn’t need altering it’s probably even higher.
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Though being pedantic, #1 is confirmation bias as it only happened <10% of the time (if you had >90% chance to succeed).
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I agree with all your posts so far.
I will say however, playing so far in 2 days in SSF, I am actually bricking an item here or there mostly because low starting FP that seems to be random? I got an exalted chest with 23, but then got a random rare ring with like 35? I sorta wish FP was less random.
one thing ill say is its ironically much harder to judge how many crafts you will get, for example you stated that 90% chances would fracture, sure, 10% of all of them as matter of fact. However, this grants you a very easy understanding of whats actually at risk here. You only have a 10% chance to fail, so sometimes you fail its all fine, but you know your odds.
Seeing any crafting stating “well this will be one or all of your FP basically lul” is basically useless in terms of understanding my risk vs reward outcome. this new system definitely seems better after playing with it, but it also feels way more “fuck it, send it” type of crafting. I used to stop screwing with an item when dangerous fractures were upon me, I had a clear risk vs reward stopping point. Now It literally does not matter, you just throw items at it until it is either done or you ran out of juice it feels less exciting.
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Two crafts around 90% is higher than 10% chance to fracture.
That’s a known bug, exalted items aren’t being spawned with the correct amount of FP.
Rip thats unlucky 
This has been confirmed to be a bug with exalted items, and they should be rolling much higher. Hopefully this will be fixed soon.
This is true, and I think it’s an area where the system is very much open to criticism. IMO, the devs have taken what they learned from the old system where players were usually bricking an item on a craft that seemed like it ‘should’ succeed, and have tried to flip it in a way that causes the game to present the player with a scenario that looks worse than it actually is, so they feel lucky when things end up with the expected level of success. I think it works for the ‘feels good’ moments, but it also may be why so many players are perceiving the system to be worse out of the box, since the numbers at first glance give the impression that the player is unlikely to get many successful crafts.
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I’ve told you a billion times not to exaggerate 
Also I would like to apologise to @McFluffin for some context in my previous post. I was not aware that as a CT you had more time to experiment with new content. So, I acknowledge that your first hand experience sample size is larger than those of us who await patches to land. I do still maintain though (granted to a lesser and more skewed degree) that opinions on both sides are still subjective and not fact, and are based on sample sizes of actual experience. Your sample size being greater certainly grants more credence to your opinion than mine, but I still take “it being better” as an opinion and not fact.
Personally, and it is only my current opinion, I still prefer the old system thus far. I preferred the deal/ no deal removing of an affix then trying to raise up a new one OF MY CHOICE from scratch. I don’t like the “cheaper” alternative of using a chaos and then having to pray to the RNG gods that it’s something useful. My entire enjoyment of crafting was based upon Targeted Crafting with the only rng element being break or not break.
This new alternative method just feels bad to me (pending any tweaks by devs). If I get an Ex item I like with a T6/7, a T5 and 2 T3’s on it where I really want the T6 & T5 and one of the T3’s I would love to be a T5 that leaves me the one T3 to “fiddle” with. Previously I would happily cross my fingers, use a removal and then either carry on or junk the item. That level of rng I can deal with. Carrying on I then faced the add my own affix & level them until fracture dilemma - again an uncertainty I could deal with because all 4 affixes I liked and also because my chances of fracture at the starting point of my new affix were quite favourable for the most part.
Now, I can use my old approach but will very likely run out of forging potential almost immediately as a result of either using the removal or simply adding a new T1/2 affix, thus leaving me with a not altogether desired outcome and probably a sell/junk item. From what I’ve seen first hand this seems to give me far less craft attempts at my item assuming I make it past the deal/no deal removal successfully.
The new approach though, using a chaos, though it might look great at first I find far more personally annoying. I use a Chaos on the T3, and I have 2 attempts to either get the one affix I still need out of a remaining pool of affixes that might be up to a dozen’ish or I end up with an affix that could be completely useless for my build. If that happens then I might have an item which is T6/T5/T5/pointless T5 which is in effect T16 for my build. That is then worse than a T18-20 normal rare I could have crafted anyway.
That’s my own personal frustration with the new system as it stands. Obviously, the devs might tweak a few things, such as the forging potential that they are addressing the next patch, and this might make life a little better. However, the ranges still seem to need some work to me. I personally think it should be a level toss up between removal & choice or going the Chaos path. Perhaps the option is to reduce the removal FP cost? After all removal already carries a 3 in 4 chance of bricking your item anyway for the most part. Why further penalise something that already intrinsically had a higher chance of failure, even if the removal itself always cost 0 FP?
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I’d also add that I’m not actually upset at all with the changes because I do have an unusually high level of faith in how the devs look at new things they implement, and that they normally know how to tinker with them to make them great.
That’s not a Bum Kiss or a White Knight reply, merely my observation after being here for a little while now.
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I think a solution to the problem could be to always let us use a glyph of hope for every crafting step that we do. So we always have at least a chance to FP not being consumed and maybe increase the chance of a critical craft slightly as I got this super are in compariosn to the old crafting system.
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No worries. You wouldn’t immediately have that knowledge available to you without knowing who I am prior to the discussion. I wasn’t offended 
A few points here. First, we can all agree that opinions are not fact. Second, my sample size is certainly a part of what has caused me to make the statements that I have, but it isn’t the only thing. Another, and more significant aspect is my understanding of the underlying mechanics.
Now I don’t recall ever saying the system was “better” (even though I think it is) and if I did I doubt I stated that as an objective fact. If I did, then I worded myself poorly. What I’ve meant to say so far is twofold:
- An average of two crafts in this system, even during the campaign, is not correct
- This system is more powerful than the old system
I believe I’ve laid out the facts about the first part pretty well and was able to show that it’s not just my opinion that a two craft average isn’t true. There might be a few exception cases where it still is, i.e. on white items where the player doesn’t use a Rune of Discovery, but for the typical crafter their average will be much higher.
Now for the second part. The concept of ‘power’ can be somewhat ambiguous, and this may be where I should’ve clarified a bit, so allow me to do so now. The current system is more powerful in three distinct ways:
- It is possible to make more powerful endgame items
- It is more likely that a good endgame drop will be crafted up to a very good endgame item
- There is more flexibility in outcomes that a player can choose to pursue that allow for targeting of a larger variety of goals.
I don’t want to make this an essay, so let me quickly summarize why these three things are objectively true.
- Removing legendaries from the equation (that would feel like cheating), the new crafting system allows players to seal an affix, which creates a ceiling 4 affixes higher than the previous system. You could argue that this option could’ve been added to the previous system and that’s fine, but the fact is it didn’t exist so this system is de facto more powerful.
- Better items drop with more forging potential. More forging potential means more crafts. The system now skews towards items that should have more of a chance of being great endgame items actually becoming so. The old system added more instability to better items, limiting the crafts a player could place on them which weakened the value of these items for crafting and in doing so limited the top end of crafting significantly. So the new system creates a scenario where items that require less crafting (because they’re already better with more affixes and tiers) also have more crafting chances. One caveat to this is the bug with exalted items not having as much forging potential as they should, but this isn’t intended and should be fixed soon.
- There are a bunch of ways this is true. One is with the choice of how to handle an undesirable affix. In the old system, you had Rune of Removal, live with the bad affix, or dump the item. Now, you have Rune of Removal, Rune of Chaos, Glyph of Despair to turn it into a fifth affix slot and shore up a spot for the one you wanted, live with the bad affix, or dump the item. Other ways this is true: You can mirror an item, you can target farm uniques, you can add free tier 1 affixes that are more likely to roll with rare affixes, you can upgrade an affix and keep it within its roll range.
Now it may be the case that despite all of this, a player still doesn’t like the new crafting system, and that very much is opinion. My goal in this discussion has been to make sure people aren’t disliking the system because of a misunderstanding of how it works. If you understand how it works and still don’t like it, that’s absolutely fine, but I think many players in this discussion would like it better if they understood what was going on, because some of the complaints have been things that aren’t correct about what’s actually going on mechanically in the new crafting system, and those complaints have been the ones I am trying to target for clarification.
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Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean, you can do that already, even for a rune of shattering (which shouldn’t use it).
Glyph of hope should reduce the potential forge cost to a smaller range too. I mean I use it and its either i use zero, or i use ? based on a range the item has. The ranges are too high and the forging potential is too low on rare items and most magic items atm.
They kinda hurt crafting magic/rare items with this patch and made even forging Exalted items a crapshoot.
I mean when a tier 1 craft uses up 80% of my forging potential on an item…
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So, like a 51% chance for the glyph of hope to be used & give a free craft? That sounds a teensy bit bonkers & would likely put crafting (from white) back to where it was before 0.8.4. If not more so.
And sometimes it uses just 1 (or 2) so you get a load more crafts on it. That 80% use of forging potential (which does turn me off it) is the 0.8.4 equivalent of fracturing at >90%. As I said before, all the crafting change is move the “feelsbad” from fracturing to using up a large amount of potential. It’s impossible to get rid of the “feelsbad” without turning crafting into an item editor.
I get what your saying, but the feels bad on this is happening at all levels regardless of how easy a craft it is. I mean its weighted heavily towards failure atm. I have had more items just stop being forgeable now then i did on the previous patch, significantly different so far.
Maybe im just being a negative nancy? I dunno, but when I see things that have no indication of what the percentage is, just the “forging potential” it feels even worse now because I don’t know what chance I have that its going to take 1 forge potential point, or 10 and brick it.
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