Forging range abit too high?

Feedback and Suggestions
73

I think a big issue with the higher opportunity cost of the new system is that now it feels like crafting isn’t a thing you dip into until endgame because even though it is objectively more flexible (due to stuff like being able to change an affix you don’t want by using a new rune etc), the number of times you can use the system is heavily diminished unless you have an endgame item to play around with.

Honestly one of the things I liked about the crafting system was that even though higher level crafts were locked behind a certain level (which is fine), it was easy enough to jump into at low levels. Right now, like the crafting system on other games, it seems to have become an endgame mechanic and honestly speaking, it’s not fun enough to be just an endgame mechanic. At least, not for me.

Perhaps we’ll come up with new strategies and ways to use it, but one of the goals of making a new crafting system was to remove the feels bad moments of the old crafting system. But we’ve really just gone from one type of feels bad moment to another type of feels bad moment so does that really achieve what it set out to do? I think a lot of parts of the current system are great improvements but if you have a bunch of tools but only a limited amount of room to use them, I feel like that’s worse than having less tools but more freedom to use those. At least in my own opinion

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74

It’s not, he’s had substantially more time with the new crafting time than you or any other non-CT.

And the feelings are valid but if someone says “new crafting is objectively worse than before” (which some have), that’s likely not true (I trust McFluff & that he’s spent more time with the crafting than I have).

75

I fully agree with everything thatbyou said.

76

Presumably that just means he’s amortised the item-deaths over time though? When I played a lot of mobas, I was much less shaken by one loss when I was playing 10 matches a day as opposed to when I was playing 1-2. The situation here could be that - the smaller your sample, the more acutely you feel the effects of RNG. It’s not necessarily that either side is wrong, rather that the crafting system which works well for the hardcore players is less satisfying for people at a casual/semi-casual level who aren’t invested in studying its quirks or averaging the lost items and successful crafts out over dozens of attempts.

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77

Potentially yes, though he likely also has a better understanding of how to use the new system to his advantage.

You could also change that to “the crafting system which works well for those who understand it is less satisfying for people who don’t”. I think that with new stuff, that knowledge gap is going to be more pronounced. As the knowledge of how to use it well spreads from those hardcore players into the general population it’ll become less of an issue.

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78

We’ve identified the cause of a bug that’s preventing exalted items from receiving their bonus forging potential. This will be resolved in the next hotfix.

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79

I agree with this for the most part. Runes like Rune of Shaping shouldn’t have a high end cost of 25. They’ll often need to be used multiple times in order to get a decent roll and it’s already an additional step towards crafting a good item, so just by using them the cost of crafting is increased from the norm. Rune of Removal I think is about right since it’s such a powerful way of getting shards.

80

I’m sorry to be honest, but I don’t understand the people who say “Take the time to understand the new system”

Sorry, but we’re talking about basic mechanics, it’s not an astronaut diploma. Like, bend over for 5 minutes, turn on your brain and it’s okay you understood your understanding … So just no it’s not a lack of knowledge of the new system that a lot of people say is not balanced . It’s a fact, when you compare the potential of an object and the ridiculously elevating blow of an evolution.

It is a fact that the current system is much less permissive than the old one. After her you can love or not love.
Someone who says “I’m a hardcore gamer, I first farm like crazy to get an item” I respect their opinions and tastes, as much as the guy who doesn’t want to piss off hours for a random item.

But there is nothing to “understand or learn or even master” in the new system.

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81

But it is exactly the lack of knowledge and experience with the system that prevents people to have an objective opinion.

The new system is not rocket science, but it is complex enough to require specific strategies. You can just go in, slap affixes on items and complain that it didn’t work out. Or you can adapt to the new system and use the strategies people like McFluffin provided to use the new system to your advantage.

Some people here have experienced the new system during the CT phase and most of us have a very positive opinion about it. But it took some time to get behind it.

82

Look, sorry if I don’t really agree. It is obvious that the new system is much less permissive than the old one.

Afterwards I do not allow myself to judge whether it is good or bad, because that is everyone’s appreciation. There is something for everyone. Except that I personally believe that grind patients already have POE.

The game where you need 25000 hours of play to make a “correct” item

Last epoch for me was a chillier game, where you don’t mind, there was enough grind for my taste, its become POE 2.0.
Sorry but clearly brought out a guy who made a perfect item (4 slot, good affix T5) with the new system and without cheating and we’ll see. (it’s not about to happen)
With the old system it was complicated but far from impossible, and therefore very good for my taste.

So once again if guys are sick of the grind they’ll say "it’s okay we’re going to farm like pigs, kill the noobs who play 2 hours and we have the same stuff as me!) And you have guys like me who will say, it’s crap, because I can no longer play quiet when I want (still enough) and be well equipped and have fun without having to sacrifice my life.

A guy who tells me the new system is good is for me just sick of the farm.
When you see that the gambler has become useless (hard for rerolls) and that you will need a chance to cuckold, to have an item that is at best suitable.

Personally, I have other things to do with my life, than looping the monolyte 100,000 times until you get an item with at least 3 perfect stats. And in addition to her praying that her not being fucked for my 4th stat.

Before it was much simpler, you made between 4 or 5 maps, you got 3 or 4 items that you wanted, and then you use the forge to get the said perfect item. If that didn’t work, you could spend the money earned at the gambler to try again.

And if you’re really unlucky, you start the process again 2 or 3 times. What was on average (with my luck) Some hour of farme to have a perfect object.

Since the update I haven’t even created a single correct object.
(correct for me = 4 stats you want minimum T4) below it’s just crap.

So sorry to make a simple statement. If you don’t want to spend 20,000 hours doing stuff last epoch is no longer a game for you.

(With the current wobbly balancing) Once again I repeat it but the system does not care, the new one is neither good nor bad, it just not balanced. Multiply the smithing potential of items by 10, or divide the amount of one modification by 10, and the new system squeezed very well.

The concern is not the change, but the imbalance of simplicity between the old and the new.

The new system with the same difficulty as the old one would also be fine.

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83

Just tried crafting on a 22 Potential Exalted Relic. 2 crafts in 0 Potential. System still working as intended?

Was just attempting to seal!! the affix on the already 4 affix Exalted. 1 craft to “move the needle” (since there is no way to craft free of charge to seal an affix) -14 Potential gone. No Seal. Ok… well lets try this other affix I like. Sealed!!! -8 Potential Gone. So now I have my free slot… but 0 Potential to craft on it. Yay?

(The exalted was earned from a lv 75 Monolith node, and the reward was a ton of Exalted Relics.)

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85

Then can we get a rune to remove affixes and lower the shard return (or set to 0 altogether)?? Because I like using removal to target affixes (or at least attempt too) but its too expensive to use that way. I dont use it to gain shards; I get plenty from just playing. It should be an alternative to Chaos, but if you want it to have a steep cost, 0 FP use vs. 0 shard return would be an acceptable trade-off in my opinion, and honestly I wouldnt complain anymore about anything with just that.

Ive tried using your method, and it just leads to even more frustration. Chaos works out very slim more than using Removal (not to mention the FP cost racks up quick), but removal just blows my FP… cant win for losing. Discovery is ok, but Im basically rolling 2 prefix/2 suffix for affixes Im going to have to attack with Chaos (way more often than not), which again… see above. Not to mention Im blowing on EXALTS even… LE was doing so great up until now… compounding frustrations…

86

Just a note… EHG has confirmed that Exalteds are currently dropping without their appropriate Forge Potential values… They are too low - apparently the minimum is supposed to be 24…

So your example, while the range is still potentially an issue, started with a value that is too low…

Should be fixed by in the next hotfix.

2 Likes
87

I’ll take the old system over this system every day. You cannot forge but 1 maybe 2 times onto anything and just doing a random removal can take up all the potential. The level of the affix should absolutely be a factor in losing potential. I shouldn’t lose it all when i add a tier 1 affix to an item and sure as hell shouldn’t losing it for removing affixes randomly.

If they want this to work there needs to be 4-5X as much potential on an item. I could easily before this add and subtract from an item 8-10 times regularly without breaking an item. Now i can barely do 2-3.

Poorly implemented system.

6 Likes
88

Yes. Thats exactly what I have written in my previous post. 22 FP can result in only 2 crafting attempts worst case. This is not a good starting point for crafting your perfect item. If your item would be finished with 2 crafts - go for it. If it needs at least 5 crafts to be decent, it’s a high risk.

89

No need to be sorry for disagreeing. Its absolutely ok.

But also no need for hyperbole an prejudices.

:v::rainbow:

90

Pretty sure everyone complaining about the new system just want to slam upgrade on the affixes on the item and expect to get 6+ successes out of their FP. I have never had enough FP to do more than 5 upgrades including using the glyph.

It seems the new crafting system wants you to start with an item T14 at the least, with 4 affixes and 30+FP. If there are affixes you do not want, you are supposed to Chaos them, not remove them and put on the affix you want. Chaos add randomness but costs less FP compared to the alternative.

91

That defeats the point of having an item with 4 lower tier affixes but has the same potential on it as the 4 affix item that were many tiers higher. If the affixes are lower and you do random removing to try and get a better tier item you should have MUCH more potential but that’s simply not the case. Just a couple of points is effectively pointless with a 75% chance to always use potential even with glyphs.

So by your estimation there is only one path that we are to go down with no variance allowed? The whole point of crafting is about CHOICE. If i have no choice because the system is slanted too far in one direction that makes the system pointless. Furthermore why add MORE randomness to a system(crafting) that is designed to mitigate said randomness.

This game has always been since day one an ARPG built on the hunt for solid items to craft on as your best items. Now it’s just decided it’s going to be a straight up loot hunt that you MIGHT be able to tweak 1 or 2 affixes. Why even have such a robust loot filter? No real point unless the item is exactly what you are looking for on all affixes.

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92

That goes 100% completely against the system we have been using since launch though. Crafting items has always been the backbone of gear. Now the script is flipped and we are essentially looking for mythical drops that match exactly what we are looking for. Crafting has essentially been turned into an augment system like every other generic ARPG out there.

7 Likes
93

This exactly. The way the new system is structured favors ‘get good items and then craft from there’ whereas previously it was ‘crafting is a way to not need to worry so much about good items at the start and then later on becomes a powerful tool for refining your gear’. The curve seems to have become heavily skewed.

I understand they wanted to mitigate over-use of magic and normal items over rare items, but like I said in my previous post, it’s become almost an ‘endgame’ sort of mechanic and that takes away a lot from the fun that it used to be. One of the reasons why the crafting system stood out for me before was because it wasn’t skewed as much toward high level stuff.

I think really the issue is that the narrative that crafting has been telling this whole time has been changed and while it may not be worse, it’s jarring to say the least.

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