Forging range abit too high?

Feedback and Suggestions
222

This is starting to get hilarious. @Maelstromicus has laid out the old system, what worked and was pleasant and efficient, and just because it has become more RNG-based (like EVERY other ARPG in existence) its somehow now better. Because, Lets be Clear: Devs said their main goal with the new system is getting rid of the Fractures, failures, and “feelsbad” of Crafting. So, it stands to reason that if the new system does negative things (i.e. Chaos only allowing random pulls of affixes, T1 addition of CHOICE affixes being costly, etc), but gets rid of the other Positive benefits of the old, It needs adjusting.

The Devs have already stated that they prefer Deterministic Crafting for their game. Whether you want to call that an ‘Item Editor’, "Easy Mode"etc., thats what they said they want. If you prefer RNG, there are plenty of other game options for that. I imagine due to the feedback in this thread, they are hard at work taking down our feedback, and doing deep-dives on both systems to get back that Deterministic feel. The quick hotfix patch they dropped seems to hint at this, as by increasing the amounts of FP (and lowering some costs), it allows more leeway to play with the system for Deterministic purposes (by eliminating the net losses experienced by “gambling”).

What I find also telling is that no one has (yet) challenged the example he put out concerning the Wand. Last night, someone even mentioned in chat that “as long as you are happy with the pool of affixes the system is great”; I even mentioned the same thing in chat concerning dropping the cost of T1 affixes would solve the problems and no one contested the option. The vast majority of those saying “its so easy to make a T20!!” are just making items with no clear purpose in a Deterministic build (even I have done it! Doesnt make it worth anything to myself); they are just crafting for the sake of it to prove a point. Which anyone can do.

Its clear that the system has become more RNG, and most of the ones who come from PoE or other ARPGs are cozy with that because that is what they are used too. However, LE Devs have (Time and Again!) stated that they arent trying to be “like everyone else”, and the large majority of this playerbase has bought into this game explicitly for this purpose. I, for one, will say that if they should decide to join PoE and the others with more RNG crafting, I will also eject like I did those games; ARPGs dont have to be RNG based. Thats just what some individuals prefer (especially those with a lot of indisposable time on their hands, of which I am not).

Again, based on what little information they have put out (and changes already implemented), the system will get tweaked (albeit very carefully) back toward its Deterministic roots, and RNG slowly threaded back out.

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223

Thank you @RedeemerX

I can only assume that the guys replying now are trolling me, to which I am not even going to bother replying any more. I have clearly laid out the issue as I see it. This is for the benefit of more experienced players and more importantly the dev team who are watching this topic, not for me to waste my time getting into fruitless debates.

For any trolls, if you wish to draw me into a debate, as @RedeemerX said, it’s very simple, all you need to do is accept my wand challenge and post in here results from your “before & after”. I’ll engage with you once you spend a few minutes doing my “very very easy” challenge. Otherwise, enjoy playing PoE and popping in here to wind up us LE players (yes, I know that is what is going on) :smile: Happy Xmas.

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224

I agree with a lot of people in this thread that making t20 and even t21 items is easy.
Totally doable. Find item, get 2-3 crits and bam done.
You have 1 usefull prefix and 2 resistances. Easy peasy lemon squeezy!

The problems arise when your build is already geared to a decent level i.e the resists are capped and you have some decent damage prefixes on your items.
Crafting a replacement or by god even an upgrade with the right resists and two prefixes is a fucking nightmare.
If you also want those on a good base you are really in for a horrible time.
I understand that a lot of people here are perfectly ok with running around with 200 cold resistance and 69% phys resistance, because atleast the have all t20 items equipped and that was sooo easy. You just have to crit 3 times while upgrading the existing affixes.

And right now i am one of them, because i recently came back to LE and pushing 300+ corruption is a fever dream to me right now, but i want to reach it and i want to have game systems in place that make it fun.

To me as someone that only dabbled in LE before recently, it seems like with the new systems all the guys that reroll twice a week are super happy, because capping your resists and getting 1 usefull prefix is easier than ever.
But the people that want to push and approach a decent level of min/max are very unhappy, because the gambler nerf robbed them of a way to get good bases, while the crafting rework made getting SPECIFC t5 affixes harder.

I am not bothered by this too much right now, because there are more pressing matters to me like the horrible sound design of the skill effects or the super alt unfriendly empowered monolith/ corruption system.
But i know that if i stick around i will run into the min/max crafting sooner or later and then i want the devs to have a good robust system in place and right now i think they have missed their mark.

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225

Warheads on Foreheads. Appreciate the response… knocking it out of the park. I’ll say, I personally am not a min/maxer, (may as well be though) but I do like crafting gear to meet the very specific resistance affixes, and like you said, trying to hit those targets effectively in this current system is Hell on wheels. (And I can be slightly lenient with the pool decisions, but some things I am just never going to need, like Minion crit/block rate).

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226

I like new crafting. I was able to craft better items then with old one. I can also pick up more items and try glyph of chaos on them.

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227

I’m honestly really happy for the people enjoying the new crafting. I love this game, and the happier everyone is playing it, the better for the future it is.

However,

are not necessarily the same to everyone. As @shrinkmaster eloquently stated above it’s easier now to get T20 gear, as long as you’re not particularly fussy what affixes you get on it.

That makes a ton of people happy, brilliant, but for those of us who are min/maxing carefully balanced gear, the new system is a disaster presently. Sure, I could roll a few T20’s or even T21-22’s with some random mix of affixes for new gear but then I would have to replace all my existing gear to fit in with that new gear.

Out of 11 items I wear, if I reroll “very easily” 5 new T20+'s, then the remaining 6 items would be a horror story to tweak about to hit resists/dps/armor/+toskills etc etc.

If you’re carefully balancing your gear to do the higher end of content (and eventually you need to), then sooner or later you are going to come across the “min/max” nightmare scenario. Hey, I’m not even min/maxing in the true sense of the word, just trying to get T18-20 minimum in every slot, so it’s more upgrading. Min/Maxing to me would be getting T21-23+ in every slot but I guess that’s OCD.

I’m not asking for changes to wreck anything that anyone is currently enjoying in the new system. You would think I was, from some of the minor outrage posted. No, every change I have requested and listed above would further ENHANCE the enjoyment of crafting with the new system. Making it easier once again to add a CHOSEN T1 to start to upgrade doesn’t affect the people who chaos roll or free add their T1’s in any way at all, absolutely none. It’s about time some of the people actually read carefully posts instead of skimming the first 10 words and basing a reply on that!

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228

Exactly this… why do are you playing a loot based genre when you dont want to hunt loot and dont want to hunt the maybe perfect item?

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229

Do you hear what you saying? you are stating that you can get tier 5’s very easy but you complain that 6 items were a horror story. So you you want a system were you can craft exactly what you want no matter the tier and without horror items?

Thats sounds really boring to me.
You can have your opinion about not having a good time in crafting ofc.
However stating that you can craft tier 5’s very easy and still complaint about 6 items that failed and 5 were tier 5’s baffles me.

230

I just accidentally made a really good T21 item. I will now equip it, and then reroll another item giving an extra resist I don’t need for something else.

New system is great.

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231

You have completely misunderstood and misrepresented what I posted. I’m not sure if it’s that you genuinely don’t grasp what I posted or whether you’re trying to get some sort of trolling enjoyment out of this. However, all you seem to want to do is argue with me in here despite the fact that I made a genuine and sincere attempt to clarify my opinion at great lengths.

I’m sorry but others understood what I posted and other people who want to can also read it and form their own opinions. That was why I went to great lengths in detailing several explanations.

All you seem to want to do is argue with me for the sake of it and I find that completely pointless. It’s not what I do in these forums. Good luck trolling someone else. I will be blocking you from here on in, as you are wasting my time.

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232

i didnt want to troll you at all. Thats not why iam on this forum.
Iam sorry i misunderstood you. Iam a human being, mistakes can happen.
I just read your post again and i see you meant it differently. While iam sorry about my reaction since i thought your post was stating something else. Iam suprised you instantly expected me to troll.

Anyways its your right of course to block me. Good luck sir

233

agree 100% on this

234

Crafting to make good items is very much easier now. Crafting to make a single very specific good item may be harder. For people like me with 16 alts, when I roll a T20 item, even if it doesn’t fit on the character I am playing at that moment, it is still probably great for another character.

It should also be recognized that affixes also have rarity on them and rolling items with Glyph of Chaos probably abides by those rarities. For example, the suffixes you want on that wand. ‘Chance to Chill on Hit’ is rare, ‘Chance to Shock on Hit’ is rare, and ‘Increased Stun Chance’ is common. If you get it to Stun chance and Freeze Rate Multi (both common), reroll the freeze rate and you have a shot to get the rare mods as the commons/uncommons are used up. When you miss the rare you want, you are most likely to roll the freeze rate back on after that.

235

Aside from my opinion on crafting specific items, I have spent this weekend so far just crafting away, trying to duplicate or better items I already have equipped.

One thing struck me.

When I compare running out of FP to a fracture in the old system (most fractures left you with an equippable item) and look at things on that basis then something jumps out at me within a couple of hours of playing. That is that FP=0 is happening WAY sooner in the crafting process than fractures ever did. To me it seemed obvious, so I spent another 10 hours playing just to get bases to craft on to test this out some more. I opened up some old filter sections to grab some magic drops as well just to try this out. That way I wouldn’t be just trying Rares & Exalted. My filter is massive for this character (I have 2 unused slots). The magics I opened up were one T5 affix of any of the ones I wanted.

With every base type I tried: Magic, Rares, and even Exalted the next 10 hours confirmed what I had felt previously. Every item I tried was “crapping out” way earlier than fracturing ever did in the old system. So, regardless of my own opinion about adding specific affixes, removal runes, or anything else, I still do agree with the original poster, the values at the moment just seem way too high.

The whole point of this revamp, as I understood the Devs, was to remove some of the “feels bad” from crafting. Well, sadly for me at least, this new system at the moment feels about 4 times as “bad” as the old one. I’m happy enough playing on my existing favourite build, because I really don’t NEED to make any more gear, it’s just a min/max exercise.

However, I can’t help but feel that making a new character I would probably end up rage quitting with this new crafting system. It just feels way, way too much like PoE and nothing at all like LE as it was prior to this change. Not only does it feel nerfed, but the amount of RNg just seems to me to have been cranked up to overdrive levels.

I understand that making high level RNG items is great for a lot of posters. I am honestly happy for you guys, as I stated earlier. However, I’m not personally into RNG at all. I like deterministic crafting, which I enjoyed under the old system. When I try and deterministically craft using this new system, I feel like I get a 1/2 to 1/4 of the progress per item than I got under the old system.

Now, I know for a fact that the RNG Gods absolutely hate me, so all of this might well be them playing tricks on me. So I would appreciate the help of some other players who played and crafted for a long time under the old system.

Could you also try some generic crafting, DETERMINISTIC based, not RNG based (i.e trying to hit specific prefixes/affixes) if you feel like experimenting for a few hours. Rather than looking at success rates, compare the FP=0 to a fracture as I have done, and tell me if it seems that FP runs out way quicker than fracturing used to happen?

Cheers, and Happy Xmas.

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236

I genuinely would be very interested to hear from other players who did a lot of crafting under the old system to see what they think. Am I imagining this, or is it apparent to others as well?

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237

Dang this new crafting system. This is not what I was trying to roll up:

But like, its going into my stash anyway.

I get more T20+s now than before. Not by a huge margin, but definitely more.

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Yeah, that’s the general consensus @Zaodon but my issue is with target crafting. As you yourself just said “this is not what I was trying to roll up” and that is my issue in the main.

I’m not interested in generic T20+'s, they don’t fit my build. As Liam Neeson said “I have a very specific set of skills…”. Well, I have a specific set of gear…

As I said beforehand, if I was happy with generic T20’s I’d either just pick up random high level drops off the floor, or set my loot filter as wide open as possible to just show anything that had T16+ to craft on with any old affix.

It just seems to me that this new system is moving away from the fundamental belief in deterministic crafting and moving way too far towards rng crafting. The more I try to deterministically craft, the more I hate this new system as it is now. I seriously won’t be making/testing any new builds with this system the way it is unless someone comes up with an “equip anything you want” build that works well at end game, and I seriously doubt that happening.

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239

A good base (3 proper affixes + empty, or possible 3 proper + T1 random) is more likely to result in a T20 now than before, imho. That’s what I’m seeing.

I mean, first of all, the 3 proper + T1 random was junk in the old system, and if you tried to take off that random, it was 75% brick chance. Now, you spam 4 chaos at 4 chances to not brick it. In both cases, you get more bricks than successes, but less bricks now than before.

For 3 proper + empty, I can almost always get it to T20, so long as I’m not starting with 3 T1s or 2s. That definitely wasn’t the case in the old system.

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Ah, cheers matey. Your last paragraph is where we are differing. My luck at 3proper + empty must have been absolutely dire because every single attempt has lost all FP before I even hit T18, and I’m starting at a minimum of 2 x T3’s with my filter.

I’m just consistently finding that I am completely out of FP every single attempt, long before I even get to T18 and I never ever had this much trouble with the old fracturing system. Sure, I had fractured in pretty much every slot, but they only fractured on the last couple of crafts for the most part. With this new system I’m out of FP at what I would consider unwearable noob gear almost every time. I’ve lost count of the number of items I’ve just shattered now due to FP soft bricking. This FP “soft bricking” feels way way more bad to me than fracturing ever did.

The legendary chasing I really like, and indeed I have a couple of nice pieces that I was going to use to try out a ballista build Lizard made a little while ago. However, I’m really put off making the actual build due to this new crafting pain I feel and having to make deterministic items (the new build has some basic requirements for prefixes/affixes, like most builds). It’s really enough to prevent me trying new builds, which was half the reason I play LE in the first place. Sadly, this is rapidly getting towards being a game changer for me. I hope the devs realise that this isn’t as epic for everyone as first thought, consider the end game min/maxer, and make some adjustments. The basic system seems ok for early,mid,starting mono & low empowered monos, but for Emp 200+ corr I just can’t see any way to deterministically craft gear unless you go on a run of some epic rng and get some insane starting drop bases (I’m talking 4/4 wanted pre/suff T3+ before craft). It just seems utterly broken for end game crafting as it stands now. I notice no one at all has come back with any “easy” wands crafted from my challenge earlier - that maybe tells it’s own story.

Anyway, whatever happens with me and my enjoyment, I wish you a happy Xmas & a great New Year. :wine_glass:

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I start higher, so that’s likely why I get more “successes” (as a percentage) than you. Yet, you “try” more often than I do, so it may be the net raw # of successes are the same. I mean, if I tried on every T1/T1/T1 I found, I’d fail to get T20s almost 100% of the time. :slight_smile: