Forging range abit too high?

Nah I agree,

ive made about 25 characters all up to monoliths since however long ive had this game (2018 or something) and since the new patch I never had such awful gear when entering monoliths

I made a Bear Druid and im looking for a Dragon Staff with T5 Spell damage and either T5 Elemental over Time / T5 Cold / T5 Elemental and I dont care about the suffixes. My current staff is magic and im level 90…lol

The best ive managed is a T4/T4 Blade Staff as EVERY Dragon Staff that drops, drops as a blue item with 17 FP in a 100 zone meaning I get maybe 2-3 crafts and its done. I cant push it better than my current. I have tried Despair about 5 times and its failed everytime (didnt seal anything)

I think they did some changes to forging for weapons since they are easy to get T5/T5 it appears due to Gylph of despair FP across weapons is lowered, I cant find any good rare staves with FP to use

Theres no real planning unless you have a set of gear waiting. I dont plan anything on LE at all most of my resistances now are just filled by Blessings. I plan in PoE and change things etc

I still think end game crafting is better. But early game to mid tier items unless you get very lucky - you will always have mediocre items

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Dont despair man. Ive been watching replies here but largely its just going in circles, other than the occasional naysayer. I absolutely try to put specific affixes on my gear; Im not a Build Planner, but as I go along in play, I am plotting out where I want to be and what Res I want to have etc., and so my goal with Crafting is building gear to match. Which is why I love the Deterministic style more than anything.

The main reason is a lot of my thinking is “here today, gone tomorrow”, and so this style of crafting lends itself to me switching up on the fly and getting on with the swinging. Cant do that with RNG draining your FP away and having to toss nearly every potential item you get.

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I would also like to add that there is already plenty of RNG in trying to:

  1. Find Uniques
  2. Find Uniques with Legendary Potential *(those that can drop with it!!)

Coupling the Extensive Crafting system with heavy RNG, and then the arduous task of finding Uniques etc. with it just turns the game into Roulette Simulator. You’ll spend more time Crafting (and “failing”) than you will swinging and spinning. I believe the Devs intent was to take the Late Night Jam Session Crafting out of the equation, so that you spend more time actually playing (and enjoying!). Which I think also lends into the “Unique” (heheh) style of the Uniques, and why they are Uniques instead of Legendaries. They are to be paired alongside your specific (deterministic) crafts, instead of end-all be-all God-slayers.

Again, all told, its why I keep coming back to this game vs. the other competition out there. 1st in Class and Genre, and a nice spin on the execution.

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Dang, an item with just 2 T5s and nothing else required is basically automatic for me. Like, I can almost make that at-will. So odd you guys have issues with that.

Prior to this patch a weapon like that was piss easy, extremely easy to make - first one off the floor could maybe get to T10 as long as the prefixes were open

If you have zero gear a weapon like that now isnt just ‘pick up any one and smash it to T10’ as was the previous patch

It will roll with either 2 good affixes with 14-16 FP or it will roll with 1/4 affixes you want with about 25FP

So you now unless you get critical success/hope procs over and over that blue staff will not hit T5/T5 as you will do 2 crafts and most likely die, the other staff needs to be Chaos’d and just pray you hit 1/4 rolls you want - thats FAR more rng than previous just to protect people from a fracture sound. Which was required anyway imo

This is mainly due to Despair glyph now as you could EASILY get a 3 prefix staff with the old Guardian/Stability Glyphs all you needed was the Despair to hit and you got it

Let me be clear this is with WEAPONS only, armor is still similar but weapons were made specifically harder now imo due to Despair

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Okay, let’s get started.
For me, the new crafting system is particularly bad. IT happens to be more frustrating than the old one when it must have been the opposite, which is a shame anyway.
The new one requires even more luck than the old one. And above all it has for the fact that the characters who could make the 200+ of corruption will be able to take pleasure in it and stay there but that for all the new characters, it will be there. hell (with great blow of RNG power with the craft) to reach this paradise.
I agree with the changes requested by Maelstromicus, they seem to me to be going in the right direction.

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Looking at the issue from a different angle, I would like to point out something that I think is inadvertently causing some issues here…

The same mechanism / tactics / loot filters used in the older crafting system DO NOT apply with the new one…

When the new crafting dropped, I immediately assumed that the same tactics would work… They do not and until I realised this, the new system seemed crap by comparison. Now that I changed my approach, the new system is far more usable and even tho I was one of the few that had no problem with the old one… I do think that this new one is easier and addresses the negative “perception” of the older system. Imho, there are a few tweaks needed but its by no means a crap crafting solution.

Key realisations that may help others:

  • Throw out your old stashed gear… Dont use it for crafting unless its like T14 with some FP left… Just dont… This is critical for exalted items before the patch that fixed their low FP levels. DO NOT use old Exalted items for crafting.

  • Loot filtering requires more specific targetting of affixes to get better crafting gear. Especially for late game BiS level/min/max items. This was always the case but its far more important now - you should have 3 ideal affixes (4 probably better but much rarer) on item drops for late game.

  • Getting items for crafting with a combined Tier total of more than 10 is still important but getting the right affixes is now just as important.

  • Forging Potential is critical. Less than 20 FP is worthless for late game crafting. Its barely ok for campaign and early crafting.

  • Exalted items are gold. Far more than they used to be. They have high FP meaning a lot more is possible to craft. Even crappy exalteds with weird affix combinations could be useful for a Legendary upgrade.

  • Rune of Discovery is your best friend for items with less than 4 affixes. Adding the missing affixes for nothing and with luck, you could turn a 2 or 3 exalted item with high fp into a brilliant 4 affix for nothing.

  • Adding affixes manually to items potentially uses up a lot of FP so you shouldnt do it on less than an exalted item and/or something with 40+ FP. Never add more than 1 affix manually - just dont - rather Discovery & Chaos - its much MUCH more efficient - even if you have to take on RNG to get what you need.

  • Glyph of Chaos is your second best friend to play Lady Luck and get 3 chances to fix a less than ideal affix assignment while still increasing the affix tier level.

  • No fractures means that you can just keep going till you run out of FP… no downside to pressing that last Craft option…

  • Spend FP wisely… Get what you need upgraded … if you have leftover fp, then go for it… And if you only need a T2 Poison resist, use the FP on something else - dont go for a T5 if you dont need it.

  • LE drops a LOT of loot… There is always more and if you farm higher levels or even the dungeon, exalts drop all the time… There will be another chance to try again…

A last thing here… one issue I have is the high FP use of adding a specific affix to the item manually - this should be less costly to do on T1 levels. This would add a much more deterministic aspect to to creating a base item for ideal crafting and return some value to items that drop with less than 4 affixes even if they have less FP. Perhaps this could be something that is allowed with a rare Glyph (like Despair) that specified a fixed FP cost rather than taking a RNG Hope chance each time…

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I agree with everyting except this.
I still find many Exalted with less than 30 FP. In fact, the range starts at 11 (never less) and is often around 20. Sometimes of course 40, but very often 20.
Farming at around 120-130 Corruption.

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Hey there…

Apparently according to the devs (cant remember who mentioned it Tarasochi?) Exalted items should not drop with less than 24 FP… if that is still happening you may have to post a bug report…

Its what the last patch was supposed to fix and from my testing it seems to be corrected but maybe some things are still getting through the cracks… I am regularly getting 40+ exalted items - think I even got a 50+ item once (that I noticed)… averaging in the 30s at least so far. Mainly in Empowered with similar corruption & in the dungeon… I typically skim the FP so maybe i have missed some that dont meet the minimum … will try and take more notice.

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I’ll carefully check all what I’ll drop today in case I’m wrong, but if not I’ll open a bug report. I did not remember of that 24 limit!

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You’re not the only one. I deemed this new crafting C tier at best (in comparison to old) the first day after bricking at T2 on a regular basis.

I usually start with an item that has at least two affixes already, high enough FP, and minimum T3 in affixes that are useful for my character. To be clear i dont expect T20, with this starting point and RNG, but “Hope” (no pun intended) it turns out T15-T16.

Often than not Glyph of Hope (thanks to the 25% chance) does nothing, and when it does something not destructive (like -12FP on first try) it gives mostly minor bonuses on the stat i upgrade while losing about 2-7 FP in the same process. Preserving FP is a rare thing, but even if that happens, the next try on the same affixes negates the previous attempt and your’re left with T3 (per affix) max on a good roll Glyph of Hope while still wearing trash items you crafted in early Monoliths (not empowered btw, just normal monoliths).

Unless they up the RNG of Glyph of Hope i will keep spamming Chaos Glyphs and fully indulge in the RNG EHG seems to like with the current iteration.

I guess ,from now on, i will just go uber strict from now on and only show items with min. 3 affixes , each T4 and test how this works out, but i already suspect the RNG will brick it either.

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Cheers guys.

I’m going to bite the bullet and attempt to level a new build up to at least 100 corruption emp monos. I’m not using any of my old stashed gear (shame, I have tons of it). This may take longer than it did previously, but I am determined to see how easy/painful this is. It may be my last test build or not, depending on how getting gear goes. I’m also going to try a completely different class, so I’m not tempted to use old bases for crafting. Clean sweep, but keeping my crafting runes etc.

I’m certainly not going to repeat my previous mistake and stick with something if a long term policy decision to go rng based, rather than deterministic has been made for whatever reason. I already wasted 3 years elsewhere doing that and I’m not going to repeat that madness, however much I enjoy a game. RNG creep is now my “try something else again” Bat Signal.

@Shrukn If I’m still stuck with magic gear at 90, I’ll be calling it early :smile: and playing something else.

@alexandre_avion Thank you for your post and taking the time to read my posts properly. I am pleased that you understand what I am trying to achieve. I am flabbergasted that others seem to think I am calling for some sort of “easy mode” due to not reading that I have suggested carefully.

@Gandhar Yes, thank you for your post. I’m trying pretty much what you have been trying, and it has failed miserably for me too. That’s why I’m going to try a completely new class/build and see if the problem is my current requirements or whether it’s simply the new system.

and lastly, my friend @vapourfire who I have probably spent more time in these forums discussing various things with than anyone else.

I have completely changed my approach, my loot filter, and also tried crafting not only 200+ Corr Emp mono gear, but also starter Emp mono gear, starter Base Mono gear, and late campaign gear. None of the above worked for my current character, despite trying both deterministic crafting, and the “chaos spam” route. Every time I tried the chaos spam, I got completely useless affixes for my build, and I do mean COMPLETELY USELESS.

Tried that, only using fresh exalt drops. Still run out of FP. On one craft just last night, I lost 27FP on a single upgrade attempt, using a glyph of Hope. Also, when you get a nice T6 but it comes with 2 crap T5’s what other option do you have than to remove those T5’s? I suggested a high penalty Chaos alternative above for T5’s, but as that does not exist (yet?) then you have to try to remove, and this bricks the item even if it works due to the insane FP cost of removal attempts. So RNG for which affix it removes, then more RNG of Hope proccing or not, then more RNG for how much it might cost. That’s THREE LAYERS of RNG for just one glyph/rune??? That is the stereotype of PoE logic, and it’s the insanity I came here to escape.

I do this now. My crafting is deterministic, so even under the old system I needed good bases. Now, with adding affixes borked, it’s even more paramount to get a good starting point. For testing, I have maxed out my filter, so I have a mix of my “great bases” filters, and my “average bases for testing” filters. However, due to my specific requirements for starting types & affixes, I seldom get many drops at all on my high level filters, in fact zero drops on my “red” 4/4 section at all since the patch.

I agree. However, this is due to the insane FP costs of some types of crafting. I’ve not really bothered even trying with anything below 25, and yet every item has still “bricked”.

Agreed, in theory… See later.

This is pretty much the only purpose I have found for exalted’s since the patch now.

Errrrrr, yes, a TON of luck. I’ve yet to see a Disco roll add an affix that fits my build even remotely. Therefore I’m back on the Chaos merry go round of RNG. Every single time I try this approach.

In theory, this is terrific. In practice, it is not. First, I have to see a single Exalted item drop with more than 38FP, not one and I’ve been farming 200+Corrupted monos for days now.
I haven’t been able to try to add more than 1 affix, as they drop mainly with 3+affixes anyway. Rarely I get to try to add 1, and the cost of adding a T1 SELECTED affix takes the FP from Exalted levels back down to Magic levels, so that’s just GREAT. The old system adding a T1 to an empty slot on an exalted was bullet proof.
Discovery + Chaos - much more efficient. That’s subjective. It might be more mathematically efficient on the RNG wheel of madness scale, but it’s hardly more efficient when you’re hunting for 2 specific possible affixes out of a remaining 12 types available.

I came to LE to escape “Lady Luck”. If I wanted to play a game of lady luck I’d play online poker or PoE. I enjoyed CRAFTING under the old system. This new system is nothing more than an advanced Gambling House for the most part. No, just No. Fine for those that love RNG, let that part of the new system remain the same, but at least allow us Min/Maxers some deterministic crafting. See my suggestions way way above. I clearly outlined how to add in some determinism without affecting the current rng system.

Disagree. Once again, the theory is sound but the practice is different. That “last craft option” appears at least 4x faster than a fracture under the old system. I’ve now tried many hundreds of items under the new RNG system, and this is consistently the case across the board.

If only my friend, if only.

Very true, but if you looking for specific bases and prefixes/affixes, then this is not the case. The vast majority of those exalted items need a lot of modification to actually be useful. Under the old system this was also the case, but at least then we could make DETERMINISTIC T18-20’s to offset all the fractured exalteds. Now, we rely on exalted bases, why??? Because the ugly truth is that Rare items are now RNG crafted and therefore largely useless to complicated builds, OR the forging ranges are so out of whack with the starting FP numbers that you cannot realistically craft TARGETTED T18-20’s. Again, not a single person has proven me wrong on this by making my challenge item listed way above. Talk is cheap, advocates of the new system…

YES, yes, my friend. This is one of the changes I listed way above, and for the exact reasons you have made. It wouldn’t affect the RNG lovers, but it would be a massive QoL for those of us who are not interested in “spin to win” lottery wheels.

You must pay for your RNG subscription matey. I’ve yet to see a single one anywhere near 50. I think I might have seen one over 40. Everything is pretty much mid to late 30’s, and I’m running emp monos all around 200 corr.

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I am totaly aggree with Gandhar.

I challenge you to make a new character without having access to the buddies chest. Then go on an adventure until all the normal monolith paths are done. You will quickly find that the new crafting system, you makes live a hell.
Except the concern is that little by little we are slowly approaching the final release of the game and if it comes out like that with this system as it is now, I predict a failure because the system of LE crafting is one of its biggest assets if not the biggest. And if the game is harder than the other Hns already released and from the start, we will quickly see a leak of buyers of the game little long after the release and criticism unfavorable to the game on steam.
As I want the game to be a success and I think that many other people also here present. I sincerely think that the game can not stay with such crafting system. And it is not by being in fanboy mode that you are helping the devs so as not to tell them when you think something is wrong about there in this time of early access.

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Completely agree Alexandre.
I’m only going to try to make a new build to see if I hate the new system any less starting from scratch. On my already done build it is a nightmare, as I have detailed many times above. I’m just trying my hardest to give it the benefit of the doubt as much as I can.

I agree about going forward in time. One of the biggest “selling points” for me when I came here from PoE was deterministic crafting along with the variety of builds. Those were the main 2 reasons I even bought into the game. If the crafting continues down the RNG route, and making new builds becomes super hard work, then my reasons for staying basically vanish. It would make me sad beyond belief, as I was so happy to find “proper” crafting here, but I won’t go down the RNG rabbit hole again, not ever. I have no interest whatsoever in this Lottery Wheel Chaos nonsense.

To me, I just don’t get it. It seems to go against everything the devs were originally trying to do in making the crafting here intuitive and different from what came before.

I apologise, but it seems like more of a “sell out” to me. I’m not interested in a clone of what I never enjoyed before, I’m interested in the type of novel and new crafting that the devs originally invented. I want to make items I WANT to make, not that I am driven into by luck and choices out of my control. F£$k Luck, it’s not what I am here for.

Hey there… @Maelstromicus :wink:

I agree that LE has a more RNG stacking than it probably should… and that RNG in crafting is a very difficult thing to balance… RNG drop, RNG adding affixes, RNG changing affixes to what you want… RNG FP spend… It does make for exciting wins, but as anyone who has been to a casino will tell you… the house always wins not the player.

I do however feel that a fully deterministic crafting solution - while much less frustrating and predictable - isnt the best answer as it would need to be countered with even more RNG stacking in terms of viable drops/crafting runes/glyphs etc…

The problem would, imho, be moved elsewhere - like struggling/being frustrated trying to get that prized affix to drop/shatter instead of being able to max it out in a craft if you had the quantity needed…

If a determistic crafting solution were not countered somewhere… everyone would have max tier items relatively easily… and the power creep would affect everywhere else in the game… but thats a different issue entirely.

Old stash thrown away

Yip… I am a hoarder with 100+ tabs and I have now taken to just dumping entire tabs all on the ground without even looking at what I am throwing away…

Agree… the potential for dropping perfect items gets lower exponentially as you get to higher levels… And the only alternative is to be able to craft what you need. For me the question is difficult because most of player base isnt going to min/max everything so how does a system cater for both ends of the spectrum? is it going to be a bell curve where early players dont craft/dont need, mid-high craft and have the most success because they are not min/maxing and high end players struggle because its mathematically difficult to get what we need… Very tricky to balance… I dont have a solution that doesnt make the game too easy to get god-tier items too early and ruin the play experience…

Yip… As I said, luck on top of luck might be a little much right now… :wink:

True… I have probably messed up countless items following this approach but if I use the other way, I am almost guaranteed a mediocre outcome… Which is your point… So I just dont bother and take my chances… I think its also because I dont place much value in an item - I know I will eventually find something else… So if it bricks, I go … oh well and I try again… I am also a “car boot packer” - I am willing to rework all my gear around to get the most benefit, pack in more… Its sort of a mindset… e.g. if I find T7 poison resist on a ring that I didnt need but it crafts into something with a useful set of affixes, and I already have maxed out poison, I will then rework my other poison gear from scratch… difficult to explain, but I am fluid with how I build gear… Sure certain affixes you can only get on certain gear, but being flexible makes me less concerned about crafting… If I use a Discovery Rune and it added an interesting mix of affixes, I might change 3 other items to try it out.

I understand. Its not great when she wields so much power…

I suppose its subjective (as with everything here because of the RNG) but I am not finding this… Sure… great crafts are not possible on every try but I dont think its 4x as fast to “end the craft” as the old system… If I try to manually do things like adding affixes, then hell yes - item is dead more often than not.

Granted… the math is simply against anyone who tries… The more specific your needs the harder its going to be to satisfy them… I have had a lootfilter for a specific combination of 3 affixes on a ring for 50 odd hours now and I know its pointless because mathematically getting what I want is just not worth aiming for… But I also understand that the alternative is that anyone can get anything they want for any build relatively easily… and I am not sure if thats a good thing for a loot chaser game like this long term… I totally understand your frustration but I dont know what solution would work…

:wink: or I just bang away at the keyboard until something goes my way… Seriously tho, since the patch that fixed things, I am getting better FP drops… especially in exalts…

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Would be nice if you could do a feedback thread of your SSF crafting journey, during campaign, early and later Monoliths and mention thresholds where you had problems upgrading your current gear and how long upgrades take and what they ended up looking like.
This may help the devs to balance the FP on items and/or improve how the new Glyphs work.

I will try to use good uniques which have fixed affixes and add exalted affixes on top, to get some nice unique-bonus effects as well. This avoids the whole slot machine thingy to some extent.
This may take longer depending on drop-RNG but at least you know what you’re getting and can build from there.

I really realize the problem on this discussion thread, some people like the new system because it is more generous in T20 (random)

Except those who criticize the new system (so me) Without a record to have more T20 (random) I’m sorry but I hardly play at a level where having random T20 is sufficient. I need the perfect object (T20 with exactly all the affixes I wanted)
The old system allowed this (difficult but playable) Under the new system it is literally impossible.

So yes the new system is great for beginners, average players or those just starting the end game. But for the others it’s just an hour and we just can’t play games anymore or almost because it’s impossible to build perfect objects.

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Yet, I am able to do so. Am I magical?

I think this is more of a perception issue. I do tons and tons of mono’s with really good, proper filters, pick up potentials, try (fail a lot) and eventually get what I want, and I call that “better than the old system” because generally, I can now do this a bit more reliably than in the old system. I’d even be willing to call it “the same” (frequency-wise).

Others do the exact same thing and call it “impossible.” I suspect these are the same people that want to talk to the manager when the drive-thru line takes 20 minutes (happened to me the other day, people were bailing out of line, honking, etc. while I just listened to music).

No, not at all, we just don’t have the same notion of a perfect object, no doubt.

If perfect for you is like the belt at the top with an extra potion prefix, we don’t have the same definition of perfect item.

And as you said each time, you or the other defessors constantly had the same argument to believe that there is only one person behind or a religious limit doctrine.

But with the old system we didn’t have to have an absolutely perfect base either. Unlike the new system. And I am just taking up the argument of “we need a better filter and a better base”

So just sorry, stop saying everywhere you need a better base and at the same time it’s easier. This is not possible, because if you need a better base, you need more hours of farming, therefore longer, more boring, harder.

With the old system, you could make a magic item (blue) a perfect item, try now and come back and say it’s easier.

Just it’s amazing how people can have contradictory speeches.

In an (old) system you could take almost any blue item and turn it into a perfect item. In the news from the mouths of these defenders, we need a better base, so rare object (yellow) 4 affixes or almost, and these same people manage to say it’s easier … No kidding.

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If you’re trying to make a Magic item T20, that’s why you’re failing.