F stands for frustration

Feedback and Suggestions
21

My bad, I didn’t notice the rare.

As far as I’m aware, there is nothing limiting the existence of the mythical unicorn 4xT7.

God-tier items can be done in LE as well. However, BiS is different and is as unachievable in LE as in PoE. Because you only consider achievable gear in PoE when you talk about it. But the absolute BiS in PoE is also a mythical unicorn: 6-link white sockets, max quality, max enchant, double corrupt (where both are the ones you want).

In fact, in LE it is at least theoretically achieve BiS gear easier than in PoE and that is because slamming doesn’t care about the base. So in LE you “just” have to find a 4LP red ring, for example, and create your affixes on any ring. After that you’re guaranteed to have your BiS item that can’t be improved upon (outside of range rolls, but those are a thing in PoE as well).

22

Yeah, but wouldn’t that be worse then a T5 + T4?.. not that it’s less of a unicorn.

I actually own 2 BiS items in PoE, given I’ve played over 8k hours it’s to be expected and actually very very little for a Standard player. Which means items for my build which have the maximum possible outcome for the slot, there is no better item possible.
And I’m the proud creator of the best flat stat-ring in existence in PoE, cogwork ring basis with double hybrid attributed (legacy by now), double attributes, life and a craft for less mana usage.

In 8k hours I can expect to own ‘0’ BiS items here though :stuck_out_tongue: Which is the difference between them. So no:

That does 100% not stay true.

As mentioned. 100% maximum roll, best item ever possible for that slot, no upgrade available.

A 4 LP item would need a 4 T7 base to achieve that + have maximum rolls on both to be equivalent to it.

23

That would depend on the usefulness of the sealed affix. Usually by your 4th choice I feel like T7 gives you more than T5+T4 of another yet inferior choice. I suppose there could be cases for it.

Do you? Like I mentioned? Full white sockets, max quality, max enchant, double corrupt with the best 2 vaal implicits available?

That is true, I wasn’t considering that. So I’ll grant your point that absolute BiS gear (as in, there’s no possible way to improve it in any way) is just as impossible in PoE as in LE.

24

One’s a legacy rolled ring, so no corruption since the implicit is the best possible outcome. It has catalysts on it though.

The second is a medium cluster jewel with T1 chaos res, T1 DoT (also DoT base) and double notables.

So not the double corrupt but otherwise yes. I’ve worked on a ‘double craft’ outcome though for double corruption on a specific build, only a 1200 divine craft to become perfect commonly so quite cheap, which would allow for the double corruption setup while keeping one to mirror for people.

25

That means it’s not BiS then, doesn’t it? :wink:
At one point it was probably easier to get BiS in PoE, but right now it’s pretty much impossible. There’s always something that you could improve upon, in theory. It just isn’t feasible so people don’t even consider it. They settle for “pretty darn good enough”. Which is as it should be.

26

Umh… it is?
As mentioned, the implicit options from the corruptions are inferior to the already present implicit. It’s a cogwork ring which causes me to have a extra suffix by sacrificing a prefix. This makes the quadruple attribute rolls possible in the first place.

If I corrupt it it would automatically remove one of the suffixes since it’s not a ‘legal’ position anymore.

No? Not even remotely?
I love PoE crafting, I learned so many tricks over time which baffle me that they’re even possible.
Especially since we have the site ‘Craft of Exile’ available and are able to create a full-scale crafting flowchart to fiddle around until we have the most optimal possible solution available.

For example I have massive options with boots. Searing Exarch/Eater of Worlds have specific currency items attached to them which can change affixes related to which of both is higher… and you can easily change that willy nilly.
Those are also the best implicits for many builds, hence no need to corrupt, it would make the item worse.
As an example for the Int base for a hybrid life/es char:

Get base to 30% with perfect fossils (easy and rather cheap, 20 div or so at most usually).
Use Alterations until you get T1 ES or Life, suffix doesn’t matter.
Regal for The other of the 2 mods, if it doesn’t hit then scour and re-do.
When you got both meta-craft ‘prefix cannot be changed’ and Harvest Craft for Speed T1 as empty slots are ignored. Re-do if it fails. That’s the tedious part, 250 div or so.

Then use lesser eldritch ichor on it before starting to spam chaos harvest craft on it after putting on ‘prefixes cannot be changed’ Do until you have T1 chaos res.
If suffixes are full use a ‘eldritch orb of annulment’ and hope your T1 doesn’t get removed. Otherwise (or then) use ‘prefixes cannot be changed’ again.
Meta craft until a second T1 appears (exalting/annuling) and repeat the harvest craft steps if your T1 chaos res is a goner.
When second T1 is there remove meta craft, exalt and hope for the best or repeat with ‘eldritch orb of annulment’ until it succeeds or you repeat back to meta-craft or harvest-craft.

Use the Harvest craft for a random white socket until you have full white sockets.
Use ‘Grand Eldritch Ember’ until you get movement speed implicit.
Use ‘Orb of conflict’ to increase the implicit and remove the eldritch ichor mod. Repeat twice. Re-add movement speed when it gets lowered instead.

You’re done, you got a god-tier set of boots for several builds.

Convoluted? Damn yes, welcome to PoE.
Doable? Around 5000 divine cost total I would say, several safespots in it as well which are the spaces between the steps.

People do that a ton. There’s at times dozens of copies for the same god-tier items available. You can nowadays even re-craft corrupted items and force them to become god-tier.
Standard people don’t all settle for ‘pretty darn good’ anymore.

27

That’s the plan. I only try to provide feedback and depending on how big an issue is I use stricter words :wink:

If I knew better than EHG I would be with them and not a customer.

But it really does feel off here. Especially if it’s true with that “lower out of 2” approach. That lowers the average amount of course but creates huge negative spikes like this one. And that’s really sad on such an item - to an extent that nothing the forge could theoretically do in a positive way would balance that out.

Positive effects are handicapped by the inability to upgrade affixes beyond t5. If a crit success could upgrade another affix to t7, we’d have a different discussion, but I think we can agree that in an endgame scenario with exalteds as input items, you can only lose.

2 Likes
28

The bolded part is quite the task as I have learned. It wasn’t a ring but a 4 lp helmet sitting in my stash that had me hunting exalteds and has led to all of my feedback regarding crafting and prophecy costs.

And we’re not even talking more than 1 exalted affix. There are three issues:

  1. expensive prophecies
  2. a metric shit ton of affixes on helmets (another dedicated feedback thread I made)
  3. the forge

All in all I never really got what I wanted and settled for what I had gotten instead.

3 Likes
29

I just saw a video from Zizaran about LE 1.1 where he said he liked loot drops in LE better than in PoE right now. He said last league was too easy to get perfect items. It was boring.
Reminded me of this discussion.

30

To be fair… last league was a crafting league which was so badly handled by GGG that everything you had to do was just throwing stuff out until you had the whole graveyard filled to the brim and nigh guaranteed a near perfect or even perfect item.

That’s definitely too much.

Ziz also spoke about Harvest when it was removed, that it was too strong and available but it was fun to have for a league in that state.

So I would argue that a toned down - but possible - version of achieving perfect items would be something that is actually picked up readily… and with possible I mean that you can reasonably with your own playtime create them instead of hoping a single person out of everyone playing will create a single one. Not to speak that we don’t have the option in LE to simply copy items and hence it’ll always without fail stay at ‘1’ and never become more.

In comparison in poE the whole community works on getting perfected items and it hasn’t toppled the economy at all, not even remotely… despite being too overzealous in terms of providing crafting power for a limited time… rather then actually implementing their content with future prospects in mind.

31

That’s all cool but we’re just talking about the role of the forge here.

It’s like a team scoring a goal (the item drops) and then the ref flips a coin if it counts or not. He cannot create a goal out of thin air. Thus the forge’s role is huge but sadly only one-way. I don’t think this is intended. And I get that it can be better during leveling when you put in lesser items.

32

My reply also applies to Kulze, so I’ll just answer both at once.

I didn’t post that as a justification or as an argument in the conversation. It was just something I thought was curious because we’ve been discussing that and then I heard Zizaran (who, despite liking LE a lot is definitely a PoE fan first and foremost) say that.

I just put it in as a sidenote not really relevant to the discussion, but as a curiosity.

33

I hate RNG. Therefore i hate the current system. I want to craft things in a predictable manner. Let me take X versions of an item, and smack them together until i am guranteed to get what i want. So if i have a 1LP item, let me smack 2 of them for a 2lp item, and 2 of them for a 3lp item, and again 2 3lp items to make a 4lp item.

Do the same with affixes. If i want a hybrid health tier 7. Let me combine then, i would need:

Tier 1: 1
Tier 2: 2(1)
Tier 3: 2(2)
Tier 4: 2(3)
…
Tier 7: 2(6)

Once i made my gem, let me socket it in. That way, i still have to get all the shards and it is a LOT. Imagine doing this for the rare orange shards. The time sink is large enough to make it fair, espscially for cof

1 Like
34

Seems like you hate ARPGs then, since RNG is an integral part of them.
Even in D3, which has the easiest loot chase of them all, there was still a chance you couldn’t find what you wanted.

In fact, it seems like what you like are gacha games
EDIT: as in, pretty much all gacha games are P2W and you’re guaranteed to succees.

35

Small correction, i hate RNG when i cant control it. TQ and grimdawn let me mitigate it entirely. This is the first time i let myself try a game with so much rng.

DOS ans BG3 the rng is entirely controlled. This game is infuriating cause i am also against gambling. I dont play Gachas, albeit i did play genshin entirely f2p, up to ar 37. Cause my friends played it. Never played diablo and dont plan to, hate rng simulator

36

How does Grim Dawn let you mitigate it entirely? Lots of sets and legendaries are random drops. Only a few are target farmable.
Plus getting MI with proper affixes is complete RNG.

So how do they let you mitigate entirely? Unless you’re talking about using GD stash. Then yes, 0 RNG.

37

A lot of the builds can be made entirely with crafted recipes and by using the skills from nodes and attachments to gear. Monster infrequents are the name of the game for everything up to higher difficulties. Which is enough for hundreds of hours of fun.

It also does not take 300 hours to get a BiS item. You can get it in a few hours. I loved how it works, its great, and is best way to do it in my opinion.

38

Some builds, sure. Not the best ones, though. Just look at the list of builds on their site and you’ll see that you have most builds using target farmable gear (meaning you have to do dungeons over and over again until you get them), or MIs with specific affixes (meaning you have to kill them over and over and over again until you finally drop the affixes you needed).

Just because GD offered a determinitic lower tier of gear doesn’t mean that it had no RNG. In fact, the absolute best builds have lots of RNG, since MIs with 2 specific affixes are BiS, but since they’re so annoying to farm people just use the next best thing.

39

I dont deal with the best ones, jts a single player game. I would play until last tier of drops, then just call it a day and reset or if i got bored. If LE had something similar it would be a lot more enjoyable. Why i suggested Reavered items before. They add that, they improve every aspect of the midgame.

Maybe then people would be bothered to do monolith. Recap of idea: mixing weavers will uniques with low lvl 0lp uniques. Max weavers will level is 18.

40

LE does have something similar. It’s called crafting.
If you don’t need the best ones, then crafted gear is more than enough for most builds.