Evade / dodge roll as an ability + share cd with traversal skills

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11

It doesn’t quite miss the mark as hard as appealing to the disabled like you care a single lick about their ability to enjoy games beyond using them as a talking point to sound enlightened, though.

I’m actually one of them, although not physically missing a limb or anything like that, but still. I am disabled and do require a more laid back experience. That’s exactly what arpgs have always offered, and it’s why I love them so much and am so passionate about them. With the exception of PoE, all the ones I’ve played have catered to all types of players. I see no reason this pattern can’t continue. This is the first one I’ve played with any mention of adding dodge rolling boss mechanics as a core interaction. My previous, however, were only d2 for a brief stent, d3, grim dawn, poe here and there but it’s way too complex for me just yet, and torchlight 2. But to just say “well maybe there’s some games you can’t play” to me feels like exclusion, and we need more inclusion in the world and in the world of videogames, for all, including those of you who want and appreciate the ramped up difficulty. I think we should spend more time focusing on how we can all have what we want and less time focusing on why it has to be either or. And for the record, I do think if they add this it’ll be closer to, say, no rest for the wicked, than other arpgs.

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12

I love when pretentiousness gets smacked down. But, at least he sounded very eloquent while being pointlessly insulting.

But, does it make it truly competitive? It’s not an e-sport game. There are no rewards for ladder ranking. I’d be surprised if LE was designed to be a competitive game, rather than just a fun game, with a ladder system. Obviously, it’s not taken too seriously, by the devs, considering how all over the place balance has been. Or, given the current issues with OP ward interactions, and their effect on the ladder and/or corruption levels attained.

13

Have you perhaps heard of Candy Crush?

Last Epoch offers lots of possibility for a laid back experience. You just can’t do everything there is to do if that’s how you want or need to play.

If a person has physical limitations, they can’t do everything. That’s not “exclusion”, it’s just a fact of their existence.

Again, cute and flowery sentiment, but naive and divorced from reality. Some things are mutually exclusive. Having content that is legitimately challenging and “everybody having what they want”, for example - People like you don’t want challenging content because you can’t do it. Unfortunately, you’re the minority, so it’s too bad. The game is going to have challenging content, and some people, probably a lot of people, aren’t going to be able to do it. That isn’t a problem. Get over it.

It wasn’t, because “I get panic attacks if games are too fast” isn’t actually a disability, but I’m sure you’ll keep holding your breath for it.

14

I first encountered it (in a diablo-like) in Undecember.
Then Diablo 4 got one too, and suddenly everybody and their mum wants to have their own little dodge-roll…
Grim Dawn added it, PoE 2 announced it, today LE joins the bandwagon.

I don’t particularly mind, it is just different. ARPGs don’t quite feel the same as they used to. Maybe that’s a good thing.
Add WASD to the mix, and you are not in a diablo-like at all anymore.

On the bright side, after 1.1 I will be able to openly laugh when anyone claims for the billionth time that they worship Diablo 2 and are trying to recreate the feel of this ancestor.
We are moving further away from that with each patch.

15

Have you perhaps heard of Candy Crush?

Have you perhaps heard of human decency? Empathy?

Last Epoch offers lots of possibility for a laid back experience. You just can’t do everything there is to do if that’s how you want or need to play.

Fair enough. I still would like to be able to do everything needed to get the most out of my characters, though, and would like all others to be able to too.

If a person has physical limitations, they can’t do everything. That’s not “exclusion”, it’s just a fact of their existence.

The more you accept as ‘facts of existence’ that we cannot change or mould over time, the worse and more complacent life becomes for everyone.

Again, cute and flowery sentiment, but naive and divorced from reality. Some things are mutually exclusive. Having content that is legitimately challenging and “everybody having what they want”, for example - People like you don’t want challenging content because you can’t do it. Unfortunately, you’re the minority, so it’s too bad. The game is going to have challenging content, and some people, probably a lot of people, aren’t going to be able to do it. That isn’t a problem. Get over it.

Ahh and there it is. Get over it. The tried and true line that eventually comes out. This line means this is my last message to you, good sir, as I don’t communicate with brick walls.

It wasn’t, because “I get panic attacks if games are too fast” isn’t actually a disability, but I’m sure you’ll keep holding your breath for it.

You don’t know my list of disabilities or anything about me irl. I mentioned that as one possible symptom of one disability and you can take your false assumptions and move on with your day thinking you’ve won an internet argument or whatever’s gonna make you get your jollies from this interaction, even though all I wanted to state was simply that there should be a compromise or answer to the evade addition controversy that satisfies all parties.

Have a good rest of your night and life. Adieu.

16

Sticking to the topic, I don’t think sharing cooldown with other traversal skills is a good idea.

Some builds rely heavily on their traversal ability to deal damage (aerial assault for ballistas). They won’t be able to use the dodge roll, and thus are nefred compared to other builds, that will despecialize their traversal skill, and instead receive and extra 5th skill slot AND the dodge roll.

If it’s shared cooldown, than you’ll have to buff the builds that aren’t able to use it, meaning somehow adding extra utility/damage of the missing 5th skill, and adding extra mobility.

17

What’s the point to share cooldown with a traversal skills, that in general term will be always better to their effect and synergy with other skills? Just say that you don’t want the dodge.
Anyway, have you tried Diablo 4, or in general any other game with that point of view that have a roll/dash? Because is a simply move of few meters, nothing close to a traversal skills, that most of the time don’t do nothing in particular, is just a mechanics to fell the game more smooth and engaging, and test sometimes your reflex, and probably will not be a limitless dodge roll as PoE2, I assume will be something more “rare” as the Diablo 4 dodge, but even if will be infinite, well, they are the one that are developing the games, i at least will have fate and wait until the actual release before asking for a change for something that I don’t know how exactly work, we all need to just chill down and wait.

18

Not necessarily. Sentinel for instance does not really have a good movement ability for boss fights (with some exceptions depending on the specific build you are playing). And all boss designs up to now have to take it into account. With a bit of movement speed, you can walk out of every dangerous attack in the current boss fights.

Having a dodge roll ability gives the devs the possibility of designing encounters with the assumption that everybody has some level of mobility baseline, which can translate in much more interesting bosses hopefully.

To me the dodge roll is the same as potions, something that everyone has to address a basic need (in the case of potions it is recovery), but that only serve to give you the base minimum, and then your build is supposed to bridge the hump to something better.

19

Sticking to the topic, I don’t think sharing cooldown with other traversal skills is a good idea.

I actually agree, and don’t really want the new dodge roll to be shared with other traversal cooldowns. I actually in fact won’t mind adding it to the game at all, it’s just designing boss fights around it specifically has me miffed a little bit and quite concerned, for aforementioned reasons. But the ability itself will be a welcome addition to, say, a minion army necro, who otherwise has to use transplant or dedicate an entire skill tree node to traversal, and transplant takes a bit of health. So a completely free roll here and there is a good thing for characters like that. Also for melee, as many have expressed.

Yeah, it’s purely the idea of designing encounters with it in mind specifically that gives me any pause. Like, let it be a bonus action if you’re going to do it with the intention of making traversal skills not mandatory, like you clearly stated in the notes. The follow up info about design direction made it seem like they did this with this in mind equally if not moreso and are using that traversal argument as an excuse to shoehorn it in.

But maybe it’ll turn out okay. We’ll see!

20

The problem is, you can’t really not design a game around it, since all boss abilities will be easier to dodge with dodge roll + movement skill, and might be too easy, if you only design them around players having one movement ability.

If you don’t like analogy with soulslikes, let it be [whatever genre Hades is], or any other genre of games requiring high level of mechanical skills and fast reaction to dodge incoming enemy attacks.

21

For example dodge roll can have generally less cooldown than most unspecced movement skills, and be 0-cost, and it is available to every specialization, even those lacking a good baseline non-target movement. As a tradeoff, it has less range and no synergy.

Well, now that I think about it, if they just buff some movement skills, for example remove target requirement from Sentinel’s Lunge, etc, then dodge roll is not needed at all.

22

I don’t have it in me to empathize with entitled whiners. Sorry.

lol, what? No. If you genuinely think “high level of mechanical skills” and “fast reactions” are accurate descriptions of what LE requires to beat its bosses, I think I figured out why walking out of big glowing circles is too much for you - you’re just plain old fashioned slow. That sucks, but it’s not a game design problem.

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23

Plenty of games have dodge rolls and are not souls like. I don’t see it as an issue.

24

I do not. I’m saying that if dash + movement skill is in the game, the boss desing will slowly shift towards that. Right now most bosses are easy (except T4 Julra).

25

Ah true.

26

So we will lose one skill slot right?

27

Yep. Same as it is now.
But if they make an extra slot that can only have a traversal skill it would be fine as well, but can slightly break balance, for example Void Cleave can be a traversal skill that doubles as a significant source of damage.

28

ok.

if it is like that, I would like to move my traversal skill (ex : shift) to new slot, and I can add another skill.

29

disagree, since it is a human action not a skill-based method. Just kidding, I say let’s wait for it comes and see how that goes.

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30

Liked your thought, then read the discussion and hate, etc.

-I am very glad there will be a dodge but on the other hand, most the traversal skills I use already don’t work as is. So… I guess I’m a bit sacred? Fort eff sake, I can’t flame rush anywhere and have that actually work 70% of the time so how is this new dodge mechanic going to be better?

I really hope.

A LOT of hope.