Evade / dodge roll as an ability + share cd with traversal skills

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As we now know, evade/roll mechanic is making its way into the game in 1.1
I’d like this mechanic to be an ability that every class has by default, but you have to equip it on your skillbar, like any other movement ability, and it should share cooldown with other traversal abilities.

If it is not the case, we will have two movement abilities, which will result in bosses being designed around using both of them. Then we will have a game that is closer to souls-like than an ARPG. Some players already describe boss battles as souls-like, and I don’t agree with them, but if this is introduced as a separate button, I will join that camp lol.

If some other game (cough PoE2 cough D4 cough) did it, doesn’t mean that LE should copy it as is.

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According to Mike, the new pinnacle boss will have a different design (including taking melee into account for the fight). So maybe we should just see how that one goes.
If they decided to add a dodge mechanic to the game, we should expect that they took all that into account.

And maybe they’ll end up redesigning the other bosses eventually?

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That means based on players having a dodge roll? In which case we have “soulslike” gameplay.
Or not based on players having said ability? In which case top-level players will complain about the boss being too easy, due to being able to utilize the dash to make the fight easier.

This is good regardless.

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No idea, he didn’t disclose details. In fact, I was surprised at seeing dodge/roll in the roadmap. It’s not something he mentioned coming to the game (EDIT: at least from the resumed videos I watched. He could have mentioned it and the video uploader (mostly AaronRPG) didn’t think it was important enough to include).
So I guess we have to wait until 1.1 comes and then judge one way or another. Both that fight and the other boss fights.

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:thinking::face_with_monocle: what if melee classes could use both Dodge/roll and there travel skills/ability having sperate cooldowns for them, but maybe make this a class specific innate ability for some melee classes , would make choosing a melee class have a direct perk / benefit. Aka versatility and mobility since they have to get up and personal.

While range / mage / minion classes share a cooldown with both . Aka they use roll there travel skill is on cooldown as well .
Because this allows ranged classes to save mana to use on bigger more expensive spells cause they can choose to roll affording them more mana management.
So they get a direct power increase so not getting the innate ability of separate cooldowns that certain melee classes would get seems like a fair balancing point.

Thoughts ?

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I really wish some of you people who apparently want the game to be utterly brainless would stop throwing around “Souls-like” to describe any encounter that involves more than standing still and pressing your damage ability.

Moving out of the way of damaging abilities is not the exclusive province of Souls games and you tell on yourself every time you talk like it is.

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Then why have it at all? Why not just use the traversal skill?

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Everyone should be able to play in whatever ways they want. This includes those who want it easy as heck (or need it to be, such as in the case of disabled gamers), and those who want it to be so hard they lose their character when they die to anything ever. And everyone in between. All you do when you talk like this is tell on yourself about your level of internalized superiority and other-ism, in and out of videogames (evidence: your “utterly brainless” and “some of you people” insults thrown in to belittle others and lower them beneath you, as well as separate them out as ‘others’, as if we’re not all part of an equal community). I want you to be able to play the way you like, and to be able to play the way I like, at the same time, because this is not nor will it ever be a competitive game.

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There is a ladder… with rankings… where people can compete for ranks. Just sayin.

I wish Dodge roll would share the CD with other movement skills. It would be beneficial for the mastery Class that never had a movement skill because reasons and noone else would be hurt because they have movement skills anyway.
Then again EHG most likely created a pinacle boss and with said boss in mind they added the roll because every mastery without a teleportesque traversal skill might be in troubble. That’s just me making wild guesses.
So we have no I frames on the dodge and LE plays smooth as sandpaper so I already hear people shedding salty tears because LE dodge isn’t as good and responsive as dodge rolls in other games.

I’ll just wait and see because with the development direction EHG took there is nothing intresting untill 1.5 (hopefully) anyway.

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This is ostensibly a very nice and pretty opinion sounding to express, and I’m sure you’re very proud of yourself for saying it, but it’s just intensely naive and it evaporates once it encounters reality. It doesn’t quite miss the mark as hard as appealing to the disabled like you care a single lick about their ability to enjoy games beyond using them as a talking point to sound enlightened, though.

Sometimes you need to accept that “play in whatever way you want” means that some parts of a game, and some games period, aren’t going to be for you. Constantly caterwauling about how you can’t stand still and press your damage button to beat the hardest content and making bad faith comparisons to totally dissimilar other games that also aren’t for you isn’t valid, full stop. Sometimes games are harder than you’re capable of handling, and you just have to get over it.

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It doesn’t quite miss the mark as hard as appealing to the disabled like you care a single lick about their ability to enjoy games beyond using them as a talking point to sound enlightened, though.

I’m actually one of them, although not physically missing a limb or anything like that, but still. I am disabled and do require a more laid back experience. That’s exactly what arpgs have always offered, and it’s why I love them so much and am so passionate about them. With the exception of PoE, all the ones I’ve played have catered to all types of players. I see no reason this pattern can’t continue. This is the first one I’ve played with any mention of adding dodge rolling boss mechanics as a core interaction. My previous, however, were only d2 for a brief stent, d3, grim dawn, poe here and there but it’s way too complex for me just yet, and torchlight 2. But to just say “well maybe there’s some games you can’t play” to me feels like exclusion, and we need more inclusion in the world and in the world of videogames, for all, including those of you who want and appreciate the ramped up difficulty. I think we should spend more time focusing on how we can all have what we want and less time focusing on why it has to be either or. And for the record, I do think if they add this it’ll be closer to, say, no rest for the wicked, than other arpgs.

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I love when pretentiousness gets smacked down. But, at least he sounded very eloquent while being pointlessly insulting.

But, does it make it truly competitive? It’s not an e-sport game. There are no rewards for ladder ranking. I’d be surprised if LE was designed to be a competitive game, rather than just a fun game, with a ladder system. Obviously, it’s not taken too seriously, by the devs, considering how all over the place balance has been. Or, given the current issues with OP ward interactions, and their effect on the ladder and/or corruption levels attained.

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Have you perhaps heard of Candy Crush?

Last Epoch offers lots of possibility for a laid back experience. You just can’t do everything there is to do if that’s how you want or need to play.

If a person has physical limitations, they can’t do everything. That’s not “exclusion”, it’s just a fact of their existence.

Again, cute and flowery sentiment, but naive and divorced from reality. Some things are mutually exclusive. Having content that is legitimately challenging and “everybody having what they want”, for example - People like you don’t want challenging content because you can’t do it. Unfortunately, you’re the minority, so it’s too bad. The game is going to have challenging content, and some people, probably a lot of people, aren’t going to be able to do it. That isn’t a problem. Get over it.

It wasn’t, because “I get panic attacks if games are too fast” isn’t actually a disability, but I’m sure you’ll keep holding your breath for it.

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I first encountered it (in a diablo-like) in Undecember.
Then Diablo 4 got one too, and suddenly everybody and their mum wants to have their own little dodge-roll…
Grim Dawn added it, PoE 2 announced it, today LE joins the bandwagon.

I don’t particularly mind, it is just different. ARPGs don’t quite feel the same as they used to. Maybe that’s a good thing.
Add WASD to the mix, and you are not in a diablo-like at all anymore.

On the bright side, after 1.1 I will be able to openly laugh when anyone claims for the billionth time that they worship Diablo 2 and are trying to recreate the feel of this ancestor.
We are moving further away from that with each patch.

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Have you perhaps heard of Candy Crush?

Have you perhaps heard of human decency? Empathy?

Last Epoch offers lots of possibility for a laid back experience. You just can’t do everything there is to do if that’s how you want or need to play.

Fair enough. I still would like to be able to do everything needed to get the most out of my characters, though, and would like all others to be able to too.

If a person has physical limitations, they can’t do everything. That’s not “exclusion”, it’s just a fact of their existence.

The more you accept as ‘facts of existence’ that we cannot change or mould over time, the worse and more complacent life becomes for everyone.

Again, cute and flowery sentiment, but naive and divorced from reality. Some things are mutually exclusive. Having content that is legitimately challenging and “everybody having what they want”, for example - People like you don’t want challenging content because you can’t do it. Unfortunately, you’re the minority, so it’s too bad. The game is going to have challenging content, and some people, probably a lot of people, aren’t going to be able to do it. That isn’t a problem. Get over it.

Ahh and there it is. Get over it. The tried and true line that eventually comes out. This line means this is my last message to you, good sir, as I don’t communicate with brick walls.

It wasn’t, because “I get panic attacks if games are too fast” isn’t actually a disability, but I’m sure you’ll keep holding your breath for it.

You don’t know my list of disabilities or anything about me irl. I mentioned that as one possible symptom of one disability and you can take your false assumptions and move on with your day thinking you’ve won an internet argument or whatever’s gonna make you get your jollies from this interaction, even though all I wanted to state was simply that there should be a compromise or answer to the evade addition controversy that satisfies all parties.

Have a good rest of your night and life. Adieu.

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Sticking to the topic, I don’t think sharing cooldown with other traversal skills is a good idea.

Some builds rely heavily on their traversal ability to deal damage (aerial assault for ballistas). They won’t be able to use the dodge roll, and thus are nefred compared to other builds, that will despecialize their traversal skill, and instead receive and extra 5th skill slot AND the dodge roll.

If it’s shared cooldown, than you’ll have to buff the builds that aren’t able to use it, meaning somehow adding extra utility/damage of the missing 5th skill, and adding extra mobility.

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What’s the point to share cooldown with a traversal skills, that in general term will be always better to their effect and synergy with other skills? Just say that you don’t want the dodge.
Anyway, have you tried Diablo 4, or in general any other game with that point of view that have a roll/dash? Because is a simply move of few meters, nothing close to a traversal skills, that most of the time don’t do nothing in particular, is just a mechanics to fell the game more smooth and engaging, and test sometimes your reflex, and probably will not be a limitless dodge roll as PoE2, I assume will be something more “rare” as the Diablo 4 dodge, but even if will be infinite, well, they are the one that are developing the games, i at least will have fate and wait until the actual release before asking for a change for something that I don’t know how exactly work, we all need to just chill down and wait.

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Not necessarily. Sentinel for instance does not really have a good movement ability for boss fights (with some exceptions depending on the specific build you are playing). And all boss designs up to now have to take it into account. With a bit of movement speed, you can walk out of every dangerous attack in the current boss fights.

Having a dodge roll ability gives the devs the possibility of designing encounters with the assumption that everybody has some level of mobility baseline, which can translate in much more interesting bosses hopefully.

To me the dodge roll is the same as potions, something that everyone has to address a basic need (in the case of potions it is recovery), but that only serve to give you the base minimum, and then your build is supposed to bridge the hump to something better.

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Sticking to the topic, I don’t think sharing cooldown with other traversal skills is a good idea.

I actually agree, and don’t really want the new dodge roll to be shared with other traversal cooldowns. I actually in fact won’t mind adding it to the game at all, it’s just designing boss fights around it specifically has me miffed a little bit and quite concerned, for aforementioned reasons. But the ability itself will be a welcome addition to, say, a minion army necro, who otherwise has to use transplant or dedicate an entire skill tree node to traversal, and transplant takes a bit of health. So a completely free roll here and there is a good thing for characters like that. Also for melee, as many have expressed.

Yeah, it’s purely the idea of designing encounters with it in mind specifically that gives me any pause. Like, let it be a bonus action if you’re going to do it with the intention of making traversal skills not mandatory, like you clearly stated in the notes. The follow up info about design direction made it seem like they did this with this in mind equally if not moreso and are using that traversal argument as an excuse to shoehorn it in.

But maybe it’ll turn out okay. We’ll see!

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The problem is, you can’t really not design a game around it, since all boss abilities will be easier to dodge with dodge roll + movement skill, and might be too easy, if you only design them around players having one movement ability.

If you don’t like analogy with soulslikes, let it be [whatever genre Hades is], or any other genre of games requiring high level of mechanical skills and fast reaction to dodge incoming enemy attacks.