After how long? It’s been over a year since release, lol. Dost thou even know what deception is? It either happeneth immediately or continues continuously. Of course, ye can deceive later, but before that “later”, if no one deceived anyone, it is not deception. As I already said, a person doth not see the future, he can plan it and try to stick to this plan, but no more.
Always, permanently basically.
Their only realistic chance to change that up was before release. That’s what EA is for after all, to test out everything, build up and adjust your product until it fits properly to the customers. This includes inconvenient decisions.
But the moment you release ‘that window closes’. Sure, it’s still a massive negative before… but in no relation to the fallout after.
Also if it’s real deception or not doesn’t matter for customers and paying for things. If you get the feeling of it… you’re unhappy. Managing the perception of customers is the primary thing which PR is supposed to do and fails utterly at nowadays. Which is why ‘PR talk’ is a thing. Good PR feels like you’re not getting a advertisment at all, it’s getting exciting information or understandable human ones.
I’ve worked several retail jobs. I just don’t take crap from customers, in a professional capacity. It’s also not in the job description. If any job posting was like “you have to fulfil your quota of angry Karen’s yelling in your face.” I’d simply not work there.
If you have a different experience it’s your or your bosses fault for bending over backwards for a customer who i guarantee isn’t worth keeping.
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Okie dokie artichoke. You know your posts are too long when you can’t even be bothered to read them.
Still went out of your way to “be right” by making up scenarios. I’ve never seen anyone so proud of making up bad faith arguments that they not only acknowledge they are doing it but saying they had no choice. Here’s a choice: post facts. Provide links, submit evidence, don’t deal in hypotheticals.
I mean you clearly want to lean on p2w because there’s a ladder but you don’t even participate actively in it based on your other posts. So you are basically just a hypocrite with a savior complex, speaking on behalf of those who clearly can’t speak for themselves. That’s why I call you out on your manufactured outrage.
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‘Not what I stated’ is in relation to this sentence:
Which is ‘what you said it not what I argued for’ and then went ahead to explain what I mean.
Which is the opposite of what you state I meant.
So where is it disingenious? I mean… I went along to underline your argumentation line there that ‘adding onto it’ would be good, isn’t it? Just that self-inserting content wouldn’t be a good choice (like weaver content in monoliths without entering a cemetery/tomb for example).
If you just want to push against me then you’re kinda in the wrong position given I don’t give a shit about that stuff, you’re generally arguing for that into the air.
I put the 2 quotes directly next to eachother which contradict eachother. Can’t point it out more than that. You want to be so pessimistic that more content means worse content and that’s the reason you are impossible to discuss with.
I will try, last time, one big hurrah to dumb it down to the point where I’m not misunderstood.
Where we are:
You are mad because you feel promises are broken from the kickstarter about no paid for content based on a dlc that has no current price point and is a year away. Being mad about that is fair. You don’t want to support the company, price point is irrelevant because it’s the principle. You aren’t spending any more money going forward.
Where we could be:
You being mad because EHG broke their promises from their Kickstarter by not finishing the game and simply shutting down the servers, leaving a small “we tried but it didn’t work so we have to close down.” And simply taking what money they had left. The game will never be finished. You aren’t spending any more money going forward.
In both scenarios they broke a promise , even now they haven’t really delivered on a completed game. The big difference, the one that blows my mind every time, is the people who would rather have the game shut down right now, and have a 0% chance of the game being what it could be, instead of having a year for them to turn it around and effectively get more for your money’s worth. You’ve still spent the same amount, whether it’s just box price, or supporter packs, or MTX, the difference is all of that being a waste of money right now, this very second. You might still feel that way in a year’s time depending what happens going forward, but I’ll gladly take the chance of a better game over the death of the current game.
It would have been so much easier for the devs to just take their money and go. Instead they are going to be working for an entire extra year on the chance, not guarantee, that they will be able to right this ship and becomes profitable and with a better product, all the while taking crap from their “fans” and making no profit over that year because the reaction of their base has been so vitriolic they can safely assume they won’t be selling more MTX than before.
So again, if you want to hold onto that anger for an entire year and completely ignore the game, or it’s changes, then just do yourself a favor and let it go. There’s nothing healthy about wanting to be mad all the time over something that isn’t life changing.
Umh… the second is a expansion of explanation to the first?
You don’t mess with existing content. The second quote is solely related to existing content and stuff interfering with that.
Hence when it ‘inserts’ itself and is well received inititally it tends to become a bother after (when it’s not the centerpiece anymore) as it takes space up for other things.
And when you directly change the content which has already been established then people are initially pissed even when it has a overall positive effect over time.
It solely states no matter what you do you either cause severe long-term issues or very problematic short-term issues. But either way you cause issues with it.
Which is why adding content without infringing on existing content is the way to go.
Not more and not less was stated from me.
Sure!
I’m simply stating that we got 2 options as customers now:
- We accept this isn’t what we want and hence don’t provide any money. The product fails, shuts down and nothing gets added. It ends for us and the company basically ‘now’.
- We accept this isn’t what we want but we do keep providing money. The product might or might not fail as others will definitely leave… and it also has a decent chance to become something we don’t like enough to warrant this money influx after or even outright get worse in our perception. Sure… could also succeed.
Is it worth the risk? You decide for yourself… but piss off trying to tell others if it is for them.
Whatever man, nobody is forcing you to pay any money for anything. “But it could become worse”, thanks for enforcing what I’ve been saying the entire time, you just want to be mad even if it means hoping the company fails. If you don’t like the changes, you just don’t spend more money. It is that simple, there’s no mysterious option where you don’t like the product but you get charged more for it.
You still aren’t getting the money spent into it back either way. Like I said, impossible to have a serious discussion with you when you go out of the way to be the victim, even when something good clearly will be bad.
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Are you saying it’s not a possibility?
EHG has gradually reduced communication since 1.0, especially in transparency. Likely based on them being in panic mode because of finances… which still hasn’t changed.
In hindsight - as we now know it to be a likely decider for many of the things we saw - this likely was what brought the substantialy changes after 1.1, with the severe delay, trying to calm the community with the event between 1.1 and 1.2 and also the partially rushed release of 1.3.
Neither the release - while good overall - nor the following Cycles fulfilled expectations related to a released product, which is why I stated in 1.0 already that the release is premature. Catch-up forever since then.
So the likelyhood of it keeping up is high, actually higher then it turning around.
That’s a common thing by the way, very very few companies manage to turn around a ‘slump’ of any kind. It’s a skill which is more likely to occur the smaller a company is, and as it grows measures are taken to ensure it does less damage.
EHG thought grew rapidly and has not the relevant measures in place yet, so it’s even less likely the it commonly is.
Yeah… but that doesn’t mean you should inherently throw more at it, doesn’t it?
And the only one victimizing himself is actually you here with your statement of being unable to have a discussion.
I’m answering, you’re trying to find fault at my way I answer… kinda on you there.
I am absolutely saying it’s not a possibility that you spend more money without knowing about it into LE, or are forced, coerced or tricked into spending money you don’t want to into LE.
Will the content fix everything? Dunno. If they had closed at the time they made their announcement, would you have felt the game was completed? I’m saying in one scenario there is 0% chance of it improving, and in the one we find ourselves in it’s not 0. That’s literal, not a yes but, not a no but. One has possibility, the other does not. Whether those changes are better or enough are subjective, but at least we will get them at no additional cost forced upon anyone other than the devs. Whether you want to support the company after is entirely up to you and you alone.
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Yeah, and that’s fair.
It simply sounded like you’re asking people to pay more so it does raise the chances (which it would) and that otherwise one would simply be abandoning the game.
Yeah, this is the “cutting your nose off to spite your face” response. I’m so pissed off that I want everybody involved to be fired, have to find new jobs & that nobody else is able to play online ever.
Apart from with patches & they’ve been “messing with existing content” for years by reworking various chapters in the campaign. Should they never do that?
- The rework of the crafting system was “messing with existing content” so that should never have been done.
- Ditto the rework of the mono system, I’m not sure if you were around for the earlier version, but you had a single timeline, no bosses, no unique loot, no blessings & after each completed mono you got to choose from 2 different modifiers that would affect the next few monos you did & for bonus points, if both sucked you could reroll them once. Peak “existing content” that should never have been meddled with!!!
- And they “messed” with masteries (part of your class choice & therefore content) several times over the years, originally there was a passive grid that you put points into, when I joined you could put as many points into any of the masteries you wanted after hitting 20 points in the base class, no 25 point limits, then they allowed you to respec masteries. Some of those “messings” were good & some weren’t, but according to your views, it’s the principle that matters & all content needs to spring fully formed & perfect from the minds of the devs, like Athena.
Pretty sure that’s the effect of your choice/preference that EHG should go under, the servers shut down & anyone who enjoys playing MP is fucked.
No, because not everyone makes suggestions which are the most extreme possible choices.
Their campaign isn’t finished, it’s not ‘done’. A WIP is obviously something which will change, the expectation is simply different there.
And I didn’t say ‘never’. I stated that it’s to be avoided as much as possible as no matter if it’s good or bad it causes substantial issues.
Planning for the future simply, and nigh any game at some stage won’t be able to avoid ‘tapping’ into it from time to time anyway.
It’s still to be avoided.
And in the case of LE for the content it was also possible to be avoided. Hence it’s a mistake of implementation at that stage.
Much like Betrayal enforcing itself into the core gameplay of Path of Exile was a mistake by GGG and caused several years of problems.
Ok, but not I’m confused. If you’re ok with changing incomplete content, then what was your issue with this for LE? Nothing’s complete, they’ve still got stuff to do for endgame, the campaign is missing a chapter, etc.
True, but you do generally take the viewpoint of “in principle”, so any change to completed content no matter how small would be a bad thing.
But LE’s content is incomplete so change to it is “ok” in principle, so what did you mean by the statement?
Everything outside the campaign is seen as ‘complete’ by customers, that’s how it’s presented.
Additions to it are another topic. Always with live-service.
Look at other products over the years, MMO’s specifically. Outside of WoW (which lost a massive amount of players because of it and is in severe trouble by now for years of mismanagement) the substantial amount of MMO’s adds on top rather then reworking existing content. Be it Everquest 2, Lost Ark, Black Desert online (which leaves half-assed stuff in though and that broke their neck over the course of time), GW2, FF14… and so on. The only exception in the live-service sector were Destiny 2… which had those severe issues because of it and PoE which also had some struggles whenever they did that stuff.
Weaver content is inserting itself into the monolith gameplay, not as a ‘I can do it now’ thing but it enforces itself. It’s also not like a new goal for the monolith completions (like champion kills for example) but simply ‘there’.
Same as Nemesis during campaign.
The first messed up people’s progression in normal Monolith which caused the jump to empowered to be even more severe (as they also scale over there) and the second made the already easy campaign so nonsensically undertuned that we got the hefty talks about ‘this is too easy’ versus those not knowing how to handle Nemesis decently well and not getting the rewards stating (we want it to be easier)… albeit Lagon and Majasa play a role in that with the scaling overall too.
And once more… LE’s campaign is incomplete. The core premise of end-game is after all ‘complete’. Go through normal Monolith and then empowered. That’s the premise, completed system which simply lacks variety for the empowered area.
Were monolith running itself ‘incomplete’? We can argue that loot lizards simply went to provide a pinata for rewards, not all too heavily inserting themselves as only you interact with them… they don’t really interact back.
But Champions? They caused issues, still do. Weaver content? Caused issues, still does, less so at least but the buffing of some mobs for characters already at the limit and struggling is quite brutal actually.
I also brought the example of Boss-ward up again, with the exchange for one issue with another. Leech solved, overkill kinda solved, low-dps experience messed up instead.
That’s the things I’m talking about.
Same as the animation rework in PoE 1 which screwed over a lot of stuff short-term despite being a good addition long-term.
And the opposite as mentioned with Betrayal. Reallly well received and then causing follow-up issues for other leagues and the re-grinding of veiled crafts being a problem.
No matter what you do in game-design… you have to sacrifice something, the question is just how severe that sacrifice feels for a specific group of players. Which is why additions without enforced insertion cause the least negative effects simply. The few existing are countered by the aspect that people like to complete new things after all, which allows the established power level people have built up to be messed with being not such a severe sacrifice for it.