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Endurance vs Low Life or High Health Regen builds

Hey all… Loving 0.81b…

My version of @boardman21 Regifter has survived being just as tanky as before but seems to have lost out on some damage somewhere… @Llama8 Flamereave Spellblade - doing fine for me… @boardman21 version as Lightning Flamereave Spellblade seems to have gotten tankier and does even more damage for me…

Got a lot to go through to figure out why tho… fun… fun fun…

My question is this…

The new Endurance stat… If it takes effect from the Endurance Threshold is reached at say 100 health… then the Endurance % represents the reduction in all damage.

If you have a high health regen build where you are 95% of the time WELL above the threshold, then its a pointless stat - is this correct?

If you have a low health build with high ward, you never take damage to your health so the Endurance factor never ticks - is this correct?

I.e. Endurance is worthless on high health/ health regen and Low life ward builds?

(caveat, unless of course you can get your endurance Threshold to virtually the same as your health total - hmmm… could be an interesting way to get a massive damage reduction).

Do I have this correct?

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It’s also very interesting how Endurance works with LowLife. If I have 100HP and 1.5k ward will ALL incoming damage decrease or will Endurance turn on when the whole ward ends?

Whatever llama about to say goes

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Endurance only reduces the damage take to life, it has no effect on the amount of ward you loose when you get hit. So it’s of no use to an Exsanguinous/Last Steps of the Living or any other ward build. It might be useful for a Spellblade in the rare cases that you loose all your ward, but it does require quite a few affix slots to be good.

If you take all the Endurance threshold affix slots, with t5 affixes, you can get the threshold up to 800-900 or so at lvl 100. Any hp above that threshold will not receive the endurance damage reduction (and you only need 2-3 t5 affixes to hit 60%).

It’s not useless against high hp builds, but it is worth less. I used it on my void knight caster (~700-800 hp, high leech, almost all of the hp was protected by endurance) & it was very tanky.

If you hover your mouse over your hp bulb, you’ll see a yellow bar showing where endurance starts to take effect.

Edit: If you have a threshold of 100 & you have 1,000 hp, any damage you take between the 1,000 hp & 100 hp won’t be reduced by the endurance DR, but all damage that takes you below the 100 threshold will be affected. If a hit takes you from 200 hp down to 50, the first 100 damage (from 200 hp down to 100) won’t be affected but the last 50 (from 100 down to 50) would.

TLDR, endurance is awesome, it affects all damage (inc DoTs) & is always in effect for any damage that takes you below the threshold.

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Definitely seems like that would the most useful implementation of Endurance… Get the threshold as close to you health total as possible/viable and effectively all damage is then reduced by potentially a large %.

Liking the new mechanisms in 0.8.1 :smiley:

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Yeah, though I don’t think that’s how the devs intend it to be used.

except thats pretty much exactly how the old system with protections worked (in terms of lower HP builds were just more efficient)

Not sure that i like going back that direction.

I really like endurance, but i think the threshold is where it breaks for me

I would rather it be much much more difficult to stack the % endurance but it worked 100% of the time no matter how much HP you stack so you had to find the right balance of stacking life and stacking % DR.

Right now its just another gotta cap the 60% and then keep my HP low and stack threshold instead so there about the same.

Was not around for this “old system” you refer to… perhaps they are testing a middle ground after the overreliance on the “Set res” affixes? Or maybe they didnt like the way it worked automatically with the Armour stat?

Endurence brings the old problem of “Hp is useless” back. You can get arround 1k treshold with T7 affixes and if you are at this point you don’t need more HP. It’s simple you can simply neglect every point of HP or vitality with endurence.
Endurence is realy potent but I think it is a step back and not beneficial for LE.

Yea I’m not a fan overall of Endurance. It puts too much reliance on low life builds. Not really my type of play style. I enjoyed Set Res’s. I tied them to anything after story mode. They pretty much replaced the reliance of three different affixes into two. No need to stack any HP anymore. Don’t even need armor. Just need Endurance Threshold and the minimal Endurance 60%. If they were worried about the reliance upon Set Res’s they didn’t do a good job of replacing that reliance. Just made it easier. IMO

It very much depends what you mean by low-life builds. In LE, low-life generally means using a mechanic such as Exsanguinous/Last Steps of the Living to convert your hp into ward. Those builds want to stack as much hp as possible & gain no benefit from Endurance (since it won’t reduce the damage taken to ward).

HP stacking is certainly not particularly rewarded by building endurance though from conversations with the devs, I think that’s where they intended it to be used despite that not being how the player wants to use it.

I havent played in a while or used Endurance but the first and only thing I can think of is they cannot balance Ward and there is their only solution, which is grim

it seems you were around? you posted in that thread about protections changing to % from flat…that is the old system

I don’t agree that the addition of Endurance is a step backward. It’s just another defensive option just like the many others we have. Maybe I would be more inclined to retract this statement if endurance ends up being the only thing that matters but from what I have seen thus far, other defensive options still can benefit you and be powerful. If this is indeed the case it opens up more gearing opportunities than removes them and I find that interesting.

From a game play perspective I am enjoying the new addition of Endurance. I found in hardcore SSF it’s difficult to justify endurance stack early. I pretty much concluded after a few test runs (hehe, deaths) the stat is more endgame focus defensive option similar to low life ward. The best option for leveling and going into endgame is that you have to stack other defenses then grind out enough crafting mats to switch all your gear over slowly while monolith processing. From that view point I think it’s fairly balanced with how accessible it is and the amount of work it takes to fully gear a character out with this mitigation path (I am aware this experience is probably much different in SC).

If Endurance does seem to suck up all the build opportunities for endgame after the number crunchers have done their work, then I rather they just nerf it’s potential mitigation to bring it in line with other builds then remove it from the game. I want more choices for defensive layering in the game that have strengths and weaknesses, I would hate for this mechanic to be removed.

So pretty much what people are going to be gunning for is Resists, Endurance, and maybe some Regen. Regen is stronger the less max HP you have too.

It depends on the people. Right now I play a Pala who get things done with max resis a looot of armor and leech as well as leech from dots. I have a low max HP Druid with endurence and it’s pretty funny.
The most suprising thing was endurence lich with all the leech incorperated in the tree it’s hard to tell if you ever loose HP.

Endurence is very strong after a certain investment then again you can make it without it.

I think endurance does a lot to make subtle things more viable.
For example, if you are taking a single hit every three seconds of 2000 damage, plus lots of small hits afterwards.

Toon 1 is your pure health (2.1K HP) and damage stacker, which survives the first hit, then dies from the combination of all the little other hits. The village is overrun by monsters.

Toon 2, you have decent life regen, 1.5K HP and 500 endurance threshold with 20% endurance. You barely survive the 2K damage initial hit, but your investment into a bit of life regen and endurance allows you to stay alive for all the follow up little hits and you save the village and marry the fair maiden.

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The second character wouldn’t have survived the big hit. They would have taken 1k unmitigated from the big hit plus another 800 (1k reduced by 20% from endurance) for a total of 1.8k. The character with endurance would only have survived if they had 60% DR (for a total hit of 1.4k which was likely your intention).

Plus you’re comparing a character with more mitigation & sustain (#2) to a character with apparently no leech (#1).

Besides, now that defensive affixes are purely suffixes, there’s no reason for character #2 to be a “damage stacker” as well.

I made my Void Knight caster a set of gear stacking Endurance (the day before 0.8.1c nerfed endurance threshold, naturally!) to compare it to going pure hp (~1k hp & ~700 endurance threshold with 60% DR, compared to ~1.7k hp with slightly more damage) & they played very similarly. The main difference was that on the endurance stacking character had Sigils of Hope Faith node proccing significantly more frequently (consumes a Sigil if you take a single hit over ~25% of your hp & heals you for ~200 hp), but apart from that I didn’t see any difference in survivability.

And that’s it :). With 0.8.1c there is no need for endurence at all because you can easiely get the same EHp by stacking health. It already feels like endurence is completely useless. They could simply offer it as a GB mechanik for Primalists and be done with it. Maybe it’s just me but after this patch endurence seems like a waste of development time.

But this was the day before 0.8.1c. in 0.8.1c the a bit worse (~600 threshold instead of ~700).

I think the key thing to think about is that they devs seem to want it to function at low-ish life, not be used as an additional layer of defence that’s always applicable. Unfortunately the way the game works, you’re either at reasonably full hp, or you’re dead (or you’re a low-life ward build). I think it still needs more iterating, as I don’t think it’s worth using for the majority of builds at the moment. I’m not sure that there’s really any defence that’s useful at small values (resists, ward, dodge, etc).