Endgame RNG

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21

I mean, that’s kind of the point I was going for. Headhunter and Mageblood are supposed to be chase items but you can’t call them that when people have them in the first week of a new league. If you’re comparing to POE, you’re used to pretend chase items - LE is giving you actual chase items. You can treat HH/MB as a given in POE. You cannot treat maxed out Legendaries the same way. Also keep in mind that we’re working without all the puzzle pieces. Factions are going to have a huge impact on accessibility and we don’t have them yet.

Whether or not you like that is down to personal preference, but IMO that’s the response to this:

Giving players actual chase items - which necessarily means that most people are absolutely not going to get them - instead of items that only pretend to be chase items is the “justification”, IMO. Personally, I’m OK with there being items that are aspirational that I’ll chase until I either get them or decide I’m done.

22

I feel like you’re missing just how unlikely it is any single player will get a 4lp of any unique that isn’t a levelling one, during a season. Unelss the seasons are like, multiple years long, or just forever.

A 4lp titans heart isn an aspiration, its a fantasy. You will never see it. It’s not chase, it’s an illusion of chase.

The reason people can get chase items in a week, is because really good players, are really good at the game, and know how to become optimal and efficient. If you design your chase item acquisition around people who truly dedicate their time to mastering a game, then you will make every other player of that game never see those things. 4lp uniques for the most part? Not even those of us who put in ludicrous hours are ever going to see them. Meanwhile we have t4 bosses dead in a couple of days. It’s a disparity that doesn’t make sense, unless viewed as the devs not intending people to get those items.

I get the argument you’re trying to make, I just think it’s completely missing that this isn’t a discussion about whether there should be items that take weeks, or a couple of months to get. But whether an item should be unlikely to get, if someone dedicates 8 hours a day, every day, for 2 months, to specifically farming that one thing. Because what we have is the latter.

Like theres people whoa re farming just any titans heart, they’re spending a few days farming it. Granted these are new players, and that grind will go down. But thats a 0 lp, any roll, titans heart. At best more casual players, after some time with theg ame, will need to dedicate a couple of play sessions to getting that. That’s good investment, it means a 1lp is gonna take a week or 2, it means a 2 lp would be something that will take most of the time people put into a league, it measn 3lp is super rare and a very lucky drop, and it means 4lp isnt real.

What that allows, is people who are truly dedicated to the game and mastering it, can aim for a 2lp in a week or two, or a 3lp as the final build defining item, if they aren’t interested in alts. But leaves teh 4lp still, as an impossible item for them as well. Theres no reason 4lp should exist there for me, and from the sounds of it, for you. If you want items that you literally cant obtain, then yes, it’s good chase, becuase you will never reach it. But if you’re viewing that 4lp as an item you could maybe get? Then you’re really misunderstanding lp rarity increases as you go up from 1 to 4.

23

I really do understand how unlikely it is. I just don’t think it’s bad that some items can be nearly impossible to get, either for me or for anyone else. Like, if we were to come back in ten years and there’s been one person ever in the entire history of LE ever to drop a 4LP Titan’s Heart, I will have had 10 years of not caring and then 60 seconds of “Whoa!”

I’m not though. Not even remotely. I don’t know how to say this without sounding… condescending(?) but I’m not trying to be - I used to think in hardcore terms and now I can’t because my lifestyle has absolutely no room for it and probably never will again. I had to learn how to accept that in any game I play, the “best” things are just flat out going to be out of my reach. So, understand that that’s where I’m coming from when I say things. If there’s an item that’s impossible for nearly everybody to get, that doesn’t bother me and it doesn’t affect how much I enjoy the game. If I let things like that bother me I couldn’t enjoy any game.

Personally, I’ve found that attitude has helped me enjoy games more and get frustrated by them less, especially games like this. And I think other people would benefit from trying to view games the same way - that it’s ok that things exist which you can’t have because none of it’s real anyway.

24

I think the thing with multiple LP uniques is, that it is a player problem, not a dev problem.
People just having wrong expectations.

If the devs would say:
Titan Heart can only drop with up to 2 LP
Ravenous Void cannot drop with LP
The Falcon can drop with up to 4 LP

That would artifically limit the system and reduce the design space for game systems.
These systems are not designed to give players an illusion to chase, the players the mselves create those illusions for themselves.

These systems are designed to give you unexcpeted outcomes.
The one in a lifetime drop that makes you jump out of your chair high into the air.

Loot in loot driven games needs to be unpredictable and have high ceilings, even if for the most part those ceilings are unreachable.

The legendary system just presents it in a way, that players have wrong expectations more easily.
In other similar games nobody would chase 6-8 variable stat items with perfect rolls on every affix. But the chance is still there

I don’t want to derail this into a LP-only discussion, but I think the Legendary system is one of the best systems in any loot driven ARPG.
People just need to get used to it more.

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25

I mean that’s what my points have been saying, it’s an evolution of the idea of chase in an arpg. Sure. But it’s also nto something people should be expected to inherently just accept as a part of an arpg, becuase it’s new. Imo when you bring in an evolution, or new thing, to a genre, it shuold be justifited somewhat (otherwise why is it there?), and LP as this infinite chase mechanic hasn’t been justified. Limiting what LP would exist would reduce that evolution, and make it something that’s much more familiar. LP not having a limit outside of 4 (which is effcetively infinity for many items, as it will never be seen), is something that’s way less familiar, and people don’t ‘just need to get used to it’ LE need’s to justify why it’s in the game, it doesn’t. People are going to constantly bring up how the system feels bad, because it’s going to feel bad until people get used to it.

Should the response to people needing to put a lot of time into the game, a game that in nearly every area strives to focus on the casual experience most, to make LP feel good be ‘just get used to it’. Or should we look at that as something that might need work on it? Personally I look at the latter. LE isn’t a hardcore, massive grind game. Literally nothing else in the game but LP presents itself that way, or in practice is that way.

It’s also quite telling that you’re equivalent thing in another game is some hypothetical max affix drop, but also has perfect rolls. Whereas for LP discussion perfect rolls isn’t a thing, it’s just getting the item with LP, because no one wants to even entertain the amount of rng and time on getting an LP unique, with good rolls

26

This is why I posted this thread, not enough player agency. When trade comes apparently the main currency is gold, but gold only has 2 uses - to buy stash tabs and use at the Lightless Casino

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