Endgame RNG

Hi there,

the amount of RNG stacked ontop another in endgame activity’s is a little harsh in my opinion.
For instance: I’d like to have this specific weapon “Apathy’s Maw”. Im farming in Empowered right now without luck (15+ orobyss kills streching over 50 corruption unempowered and minimum 100 empowered)), I know, I know, maybe rookie numbers !but! hear me out on this:

getting that thing isnt the end of the story, next I need to make sure it is “well/good” rolled, has 1-2 LP and after that I need to get a good exalted 2h axe with nice modifiers to gamble on the LP (25% chance x1/x2 depending on the number of LP it got)

I feel like its too much RNG stacked ontop of eachother. And this is with just 1 item.

I sure love chase items but having to do the chase potentially forever is kinda rough imo.

Thanks for your time.

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Hi, I have no definite answer , maybe you know this, maybe not, but they are working on two factions that will hopefully help with RNG in 1.0 , so it might be better on release. One targetted on trading , so you can get your stuff that way , the other has advantages on self farming (its not clear but it should help on getting LP items , help with targetting others, etc.)

I hear ya with the RNG being kinda rough but thats the nature of RNG and frankly I dont want to be able to end game gear up in less than 30hours because how tf am I supposed to feel like I earned it? if you want “perfect gear” it should cost 30-60hours tops but im not end game yet so Im just basing it off of the last 30+ years of games that I have played.

Your problem is assuming you need to have it well rolled or with LP.

Those are stretch goals, apathy maw is really strong with 0 rolls on it maxed, and no lp.

I feel like people putting expectations way too high this early into play time.


Or maybe people are also putting too much stock in gatekeeping BiS gear for a game that really doesn’t have “stretch goal” gameplay? I mean, what’s the point of having stretch goal gear, if there are no accomplishments that require it?

This isn’t PoE where some content is so damn hard, it almost requires a GG build with mirror-tier gear. All LE content can be beaten, rather easily enough, with simple T20 rares and <2LP Uniques.

Many people like to acquire this “stretch goal” gear simply for completion-sake on their characters, so they can move on to more builds. But for some reason, there’s overwhelming resistance to letting anyone do that. Apparently being stuck grinding corruption 300+ for… no character progress or upgrades is healthy for a game. But there are many out there who simply look at a treadmill, simply for treadmilling-sake and think “what’s the point?” and quit.


if you dont wanna walk on the treadmill dont shoot for treadmill gear. you literally just said “you dont even need it”

This game already is really easy to beat, like you said. The stretch goals being “completion to checkmark” isnt really something that should be a thing imo.

Dont run on the treadmill if you dont want to, go play that second character.

There needs to be some game after 100 hours even if that game is just grinding for better number. if even grinding better number you dont need is done in 100 hours, then the game is doomed.


There is a game, and it’s the same one virtually all *RPG games have. It’s called alts. If you’re banking on players grinding away at your game for 1000+ hours just to obtain stretch-goal gear, in a game with zero stretch-goal gameplay, you’re going to lose a shitton of players to boredom.

It’s pretty funny you think 100 hours is enough time to acquire this gear. Players with 3, 5 and even 10x that haven’t gotten it, in some cases. You’re right, there should be gameplay after 100 hours. And it should be interesting and compelling gameplay. Not grinding 100+ hours with nothing to show for it, but some gold and more stash tabs.

I mean tbh this just sounds like you are not the type to enjoy a long paced arpg, and are more looking for a tight narrative short game. one that is less about long term goals/achievements and one that sells you a complete bite sized experience.

Nothing wrong with that, but its sorta not the norm for this genre.

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I realy cant read out your point. Gameplay loop of that specific thing is extremely boring and non interactive so I must not like arpg’s? I’m on 1.5k hours in PoE. I love ARPG’s but my side of the story is that you have like what, 10 gear slots? having them drop is a thing, having them drop good is the next thing, having them craft awesomely is the next bigger thing, if any of those things above fail you gotta start at 0. But I guess things will get better if they introduce trading.

Wonder what kind of currency they will choose but I’m looking forward to it, grinding out hours and hours of mobs with small progression is one thing, grind out orobyss after orobyss without any kind of progression is the other thing imo.

I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make here. The majority of arpgs dont have endgame that isn’t just redoing parts of the campaign, or making alts.

Obviously stuff has changed more recently, mainly off the back of what poe did, but someone can very much be into arpgs, and not like the type of progression LE has with LP, becuase realsitically LP (and exalted items) is like, a step even beyond what poe has done in terms of endgame grind in an arpg. I.e. create a system which has technically possible, but effectively impossible, upgrades to gear to constantly be reached for.

People will be against it, becuase it’s just different. I personally don’t like it, I still have over a thousand hours in the game, and I can understand why some people do liek it, but the reality is that LP and exalted grind is like, a brand new way to approach endgame grind in an arpg (and wierdly way more of a non-casual thing than the rest of LE does).

It’s going to create friction for a lot of people, and that’s fine. It’s going to be appealing for a lot of people, and that’s fine. It just really shouldnt be viewed as something that is to be expected from an arpg, because its literally an evolution of how grind/progression/chase in the genre is defined.

How many of these 15 kills were unempowered <50 corruption?
All of those attempts were completely wasted if your only goal was that item.

Shade of Orobyss has some thresholds for dropping specific items.

On top of that how much +corruption did your shade fights had and how much %Inc. item rarity did you had on each of these fights.

I am all about discussing loot and drop tables, but I feel like there are some fundamentals missing here.

Both the depth of the shade (how much corruption it will give) and how much %Inc. item rarity (from corruption and enemy modifiers) you have does have huuuuge impact on how likely rare items drop.

When people complain about loot and don’t give enough details:

  1. It will be very hard for the devs to have something actionable
  2. It feels like they didn’t understand the underlying system to alter their chances, which then would lead to another discussion about how the game teaches these things (or not)

I don’t know man, it is what it is, soon enough you can circumvent bad RNG with trade.

I on the other side, feel the game is far too rewarding, I ended up with solid gear in about lvl 80 in my MP run.

If you go for it, you can finish all the game in 2 to 4 days with wide gaming seasons.

im on 30+ only in empowered right now, so at least 100 corruption, the 15+ other ones was mixed with a few 50 corruption unempowered and a few trys empowered, im realy trying to get that thing, started collecting rings now too. soon I’ll be able to make a loreweave :smiley:

it seems a little steep on how rare something can be on how accessable the boss is.

I mean, that’s kind of what the idea of a “chase item” is, isn’t it? It’s aspirational and not intended to be a foregone conclusion that you get those items.

I also don’t think that it’s really all that different from POE. What makes POE’s chase items more accessible, IMO, isn’t so much the mechanics of them as it is the sheer number of players and their ability to collaborate to get them. How many people would have POE’s highest power, most insane gear if they had to do it 100% on their own? No buying crafts or materials, no mirroring, and so on. Over here in LE for most intents and purposes we’re all pretty much still doing SSF.

No, I’m fine with long paced, as long as there is content to support it. Not just mindlessly grinding the same 1 or 2 things for next-to-no progress…ie, treadmill for treadmill’s-sake.

And, how does this long-paced game fit in with seasons? If acquiring end-game gear is expected to take a couple months of play, how are seasons going to work? I’ll clue you in, they won’t. You can’t have insane timegates on gear acquisition, tied to a relatively short reset schedule.

The problem, as I see it, is that the devs have introduced gear and gear tiers into the game, but they appear to not really want players to acquire it. Otherwise why have all the restrictions, and miniscule drops rates, associated with it? With a real long paced game, such as an MMO, it makes sense, since your progress isn’t being wiped every 3 or 4 months. But if you’re introducing seasonal play, you need to make you gear realistically obtainable in a timeframe that allows your season players to use it… and not just those who can dedicate 15+ hours of play per day.


Not necessarily. It’s just a matter of getting to a level you can reach and tackle the content. Most items don’t have some 0.000000001% drop rate associated with them. And, viriually all items can be modified to fix poor rolls. Unfortunately, LE has decided that Uniques are stuck with whatever rolls they had when dropped, and also tied a static upgrade path that becomes more impossible to obtain with each power increases (LP)…and further linked to yet another permenant RNG craft (Unique->Legendary). Outside of the RNG factor tied to corrupting items with Vaal orbs, nothing in POE is that static, and tied to ridiculous drop %s. And that’s not even factoring in any of the secondary methods of obtaining gear, through Cards or Currency Item upgrades.


My last farm for Maw (after my harddrive crash/character wipe) took 48 attempts all at empowered corruption 150+. I have an entire stash tab filled with Rings and Boots to commemorate the effort.

…and, to top it all off, the Maw was 0LP with low-end rolls. #YayRNG

I get that it’s a good item and needs to be rare. But it’s not like a Headhunter or Mageblood from PoE where literaly EVERYONE benefits from. Its only so good for so many builds. Also the fact that you cant reroll the rolls of uniques and the chance of 0-2 (3?) LP make’s this a lackluster grind in my opinion. I feel like it’s to much stacked ontop of eachother.

But again, I think things change once trade gets opened, so you get at least a bit of progression instead of head-against-the-wall grind just for that particular item. For me it feels rn like: Oh a ring again? 15-30 min’s wasted again. Better get going into the next one.

a t4 titans heart is going to take astronomically more time to get than a headhunters or mageblood. An exalted with 3 t6’s that are bis for your build, on the base type you want, is going to take astronomically more time to get than a headhunters or mage blood.

And this is with the ludicrous exalted drop rates we have right now. To bring the exalteed rates up to make this a thing thats effectively possible, you’d be getting more exalteds than any other rarity.

Mageblood and headhunters arent effectively impossible. The equivalent to them is a well rolled omnis, or the new rings, rav void etc…

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This is pretty much the exact thing with the games progression. Love it or not, the entire design behind LE’s progression, is that theres a point where the devs have decided gear ‘could’ exist, but no player is ever going to get it. Personally I think it’s really bad, and probably the worst part of the game. But some people love it. At the end of the day though, like I said in my other post, this isn’t a standard way to approach an arpg. It’s an evolution of chase and grind that they’re going for, no one should be expected to enjoy it.

And in my personal opinion, so far LE hasn’t really shown any reason for people to enjoy it. It’s a design put in ,with nor eal justification for it. PoE evolved what end game was, and it justified it with a progression curve that you could either view as new after finishing campaign, or at the very least way more exciting and less standard, but that still had a clear attainable end point, with many points to hit along the way.

Last Epoch hasn’t done this for t7’s and high LP on good uniques (I mean all that LP has done for uniques is make the best uniques to get with LP things like bleeding heart and prism wraps, not becuase they’re teh best, but because titans heart, auroras etc… don’t really have 3lp versions, and 2lp of them takes so long to get you’ve already done everything in the game you’d be able to do with that upgrade anyway. Because there just isn’t either 1) a solid, consistent progression through that gear. or 2) anything in the game that remotely needs that gear.

So that leaves us with this design in the game, of a chase that will never end, thats an evolution on arpgs before, with 0 justification for why it’s even here in the first place. The game, for me, would be better if you could only get a single t7 on an item, and only get a total of 2 t6/t7 affixes on an item. It would be better for me, if different uniques had a limit to how much LP you could get on them, and were then balanced around that.

Because as it stands, knowing that theres the possibility of getting these ridicolous items, but having no reason for, well, anything that takes more that a few days to get, I just don’t want to even bother trying to get more upgrades. Like I could farm a 1lp titans heart, that would be sick, but then IU could still farm a 2lp one afterwards, or multiple 1lp ones to try and get the exact affix on. Theres no end, because the end is impossible, so the only thing left to aim for is progressing content, that’s t4 bosses, and 300-400 corruption. Which means the vast majority of gear progression in theg ame is meaningless, as the gear you ened for that content is attainable in a couple of days. I literally don’t need a single exalted affix or LP to do any of that stuff.

So to summarise, yeah, the devs literally have this stuff in the game full well intending no one to get it, that’s what they think arpgs should be like, and they (seemingly, maybe they dont, who knows for sure) also don’t think that the ability to do static difficulty content (not infinitely scaling) should be limited by gear that much, that gear should only exist to go from ‘i can do boss’ to ‘i can do boss really quickly’

Ang again, this isn’t right or wrong, it’s their perspective on it. However I do think the game fails to justify this design in anyway.