I mean tbh this just sounds like you are not the type to enjoy a long paced arpg, and are more looking for a tight narrative short game. one that is less about long term goals/achievements and one that sells you a complete bite sized experience.
Nothing wrong with that, but its sorta not the norm for this genre.
I realy cant read out your point. Gameplay loop of that specific thing is extremely boring and non interactive so I must not like arpg’s? I’m on 1.5k hours in PoE. I love ARPG’s but my side of the story is that you have like what, 10 gear slots? having them drop is a thing, having them drop good is the next thing, having them craft awesomely is the next bigger thing, if any of those things above fail you gotta start at 0. But I guess things will get better if they introduce trading.
Wonder what kind of currency they will choose but I’m looking forward to it, grinding out hours and hours of mobs with small progression is one thing, grind out orobyss after orobyss without any kind of progression is the other thing imo.
I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make here. The majority of arpgs dont have endgame that isn’t just redoing parts of the campaign, or making alts.
Obviously stuff has changed more recently, mainly off the back of what poe did, but someone can very much be into arpgs, and not like the type of progression LE has with LP, becuase realsitically LP (and exalted items) is like, a step even beyond what poe has done in terms of endgame grind in an arpg. I.e. create a system which has technically possible, but effectively impossible, upgrades to gear to constantly be reached for.
People will be against it, becuase it’s just different. I personally don’t like it, I still have over a thousand hours in the game, and I can understand why some people do liek it, but the reality is that LP and exalted grind is like, a brand new way to approach endgame grind in an arpg (and wierdly way more of a non-casual thing than the rest of LE does).
It’s going to create friction for a lot of people, and that’s fine. It’s going to be appealing for a lot of people, and that’s fine. It just really shouldnt be viewed as something that is to be expected from an arpg, because its literally an evolution of how grind/progression/chase in the genre is defined.
How many of these 15 kills were unempowered <50 corruption?
All of those attempts were completely wasted if your only goal was that item.
Shade of Orobyss has some thresholds for dropping specific items.
On top of that how much +corruption did your shade fights had and how much %Inc. item rarity did you had on each of these fights.
I am all about discussing loot and drop tables, but I feel like there are some fundamentals missing here.
Both the depth of the shade (how much corruption it will give) and how much %Inc. item rarity (from corruption and enemy modifiers) you have does have huuuuge impact on how likely rare items drop.
When people complain about loot and don’t give enough details:
I don’t know man, it is what it is, soon enough you can circumvent bad RNG with trade.
I on the other side, feel the game is far too rewarding, I ended up with solid gear in about lvl 80 in my MP run.
If you go for it, you can finish all the game in 2 to 4 days with wide gaming seasons.
im on 30+ only in empowered right now, so at least 100 corruption, the 15+ other ones was mixed with a few 50 corruption unempowered and a few trys empowered, im realy trying to get that thing, started collecting rings now too. soon I’ll be able to make a loreweave 
it seems a little steep on how rare something can be on how accessable the boss is.
I mean, that’s kind of what the idea of a “chase item” is, isn’t it? It’s aspirational and not intended to be a foregone conclusion that you get those items.
I also don’t think that it’s really all that different from POE. What makes POE’s chase items more accessible, IMO, isn’t so much the mechanics of them as it is the sheer number of players and their ability to collaborate to get them. How many people would have POE’s highest power, most insane gear if they had to do it 100% on their own? No buying crafts or materials, no mirroring, and so on. Over here in LE for most intents and purposes we’re all pretty much still doing SSF.
No, I’m fine with long paced, as long as there is content to support it. Not just mindlessly grinding the same 1 or 2 things for next-to-no progress…ie, treadmill for treadmill’s-sake.
And, how does this long-paced game fit in with seasons? If acquiring end-game gear is expected to take a couple months of play, how are seasons going to work? I’ll clue you in, they won’t. You can’t have insane timegates on gear acquisition, tied to a relatively short reset schedule.
The problem, as I see it, is that the devs have introduced gear and gear tiers into the game, but they appear to not really want players to acquire it. Otherwise why have all the restrictions, and miniscule drops rates, associated with it? With a real long paced game, such as an MMO, it makes sense, since your progress isn’t being wiped every 3 or 4 months. But if you’re introducing seasonal play, you need to make you gear realistically obtainable in a timeframe that allows your season players to use it… and not just those who can dedicate 15+ hours of play per day.
Not necessarily. It’s just a matter of getting to a level you can reach and tackle the content. Most items don’t have some 0.000000001% drop rate associated with them. And, viriually all items can be modified to fix poor rolls. Unfortunately, LE has decided that Uniques are stuck with whatever rolls they had when dropped, and also tied a static upgrade path that becomes more impossible to obtain with each power increases (LP)…and further linked to yet another permenant RNG craft (Unique->Legendary). Outside of the RNG factor tied to corrupting items with Vaal orbs, nothing in POE is that static, and tied to ridiculous drop %s. And that’s not even factoring in any of the secondary methods of obtaining gear, through Cards or Currency Item upgrades.
My last farm for Maw (after my harddrive crash/character wipe) took 48 attempts all at empowered corruption 150+. I have an entire stash tab filled with Rings and Boots to commemorate the effort.
…and, to top it all off, the Maw was 0LP with low-end rolls. #YayRNG
I get that it’s a good item and needs to be rare. But it’s not like a Headhunter or Mageblood from PoE where literaly EVERYONE benefits from. Its only so good for so many builds. Also the fact that you cant reroll the rolls of uniques and the chance of 0-2 (3?) LP make’s this a lackluster grind in my opinion. I feel like it’s to much stacked ontop of eachother.
But again, I think things change once trade gets opened, so you get at least a bit of progression instead of head-against-the-wall grind just for that particular item. For me it feels rn like: Oh a ring again? 15-30 min’s wasted again. Better get going into the next one.
a t4 titans heart is going to take astronomically more time to get than a headhunters or mageblood. An exalted with 3 t6’s that are bis for your build, on the base type you want, is going to take astronomically more time to get than a headhunters or mage blood.
And this is with the ludicrous exalted drop rates we have right now. To bring the exalteed rates up to make this a thing thats effectively possible, you’d be getting more exalteds than any other rarity.
Mageblood and headhunters arent effectively impossible. The equivalent to them is a well rolled omnis, or the new rings, rav void etc…
This is pretty much the exact thing with the games progression. Love it or not, the entire design behind LE’s progression, is that theres a point where the devs have decided gear ‘could’ exist, but no player is ever going to get it. Personally I think it’s really bad, and probably the worst part of the game. But some people love it. At the end of the day though, like I said in my other post, this isn’t a standard way to approach an arpg. It’s an evolution of chase and grind that they’re going for, no one should be expected to enjoy it.
And in my personal opinion, so far LE hasn’t really shown any reason for people to enjoy it. It’s a design put in ,with nor eal justification for it. PoE evolved what end game was, and it justified it with a progression curve that you could either view as new after finishing campaign, or at the very least way more exciting and less standard, but that still had a clear attainable end point, with many points to hit along the way.
Last Epoch hasn’t done this for t7’s and high LP on good uniques (I mean all that LP has done for uniques is make the best uniques to get with LP things like bleeding heart and prism wraps, not becuase they’re teh best, but because titans heart, auroras etc… don’t really have 3lp versions, and 2lp of them takes so long to get you’ve already done everything in the game you’d be able to do with that upgrade anyway. Because there just isn’t either 1) a solid, consistent progression through that gear. or 2) anything in the game that remotely needs that gear.
So that leaves us with this design in the game, of a chase that will never end, thats an evolution on arpgs before, with 0 justification for why it’s even here in the first place. The game, for me, would be better if you could only get a single t7 on an item, and only get a total of 2 t6/t7 affixes on an item. It would be better for me, if different uniques had a limit to how much LP you could get on them, and were then balanced around that.
Because as it stands, knowing that theres the possibility of getting these ridicolous items, but having no reason for, well, anything that takes more that a few days to get, I just don’t want to even bother trying to get more upgrades. Like I could farm a 1lp titans heart, that would be sick, but then IU could still farm a 2lp one afterwards, or multiple 1lp ones to try and get the exact affix on. Theres no end, because the end is impossible, so the only thing left to aim for is progressing content, that’s t4 bosses, and 300-400 corruption. Which means the vast majority of gear progression in theg ame is meaningless, as the gear you ened for that content is attainable in a couple of days. I literally don’t need a single exalted affix or LP to do any of that stuff.
So to summarise, yeah, the devs literally have this stuff in the game full well intending no one to get it, that’s what they think arpgs should be like, and they (seemingly, maybe they dont, who knows for sure) also don’t think that the ability to do static difficulty content (not infinitely scaling) should be limited by gear that much, that gear should only exist to go from ‘i can do boss’ to ‘i can do boss really quickly’
Ang again, this isn’t right or wrong, it’s their perspective on it. However I do think the game fails to justify this design in anyway.
I mean, that’s kind of the point I was going for. Headhunter and Mageblood are supposed to be chase items but you can’t call them that when people have them in the first week of a new league. If you’re comparing to POE, you’re used to pretend chase items - LE is giving you actual chase items. You can treat HH/MB as a given in POE. You cannot treat maxed out Legendaries the same way. Also keep in mind that we’re working without all the puzzle pieces. Factions are going to have a huge impact on accessibility and we don’t have them yet.
Whether or not you like that is down to personal preference, but IMO that’s the response to this:
Giving players actual chase items - which necessarily means that most people are absolutely not going to get them - instead of items that only pretend to be chase items is the “justification”, IMO. Personally, I’m OK with there being items that are aspirational that I’ll chase until I either get them or decide I’m done.
I feel like you’re missing just how unlikely it is any single player will get a 4lp of any unique that isn’t a levelling one, during a season. Unelss the seasons are like, multiple years long, or just forever.
A 4lp titans heart isn an aspiration, its a fantasy. You will never see it. It’s not chase, it’s an illusion of chase.
The reason people can get chase items in a week, is because really good players, are really good at the game, and know how to become optimal and efficient. If you design your chase item acquisition around people who truly dedicate their time to mastering a game, then you will make every other player of that game never see those things. 4lp uniques for the most part? Not even those of us who put in ludicrous hours are ever going to see them. Meanwhile we have t4 bosses dead in a couple of days. It’s a disparity that doesn’t make sense, unless viewed as the devs not intending people to get those items.
I get the argument you’re trying to make, I just think it’s completely missing that this isn’t a discussion about whether there should be items that take weeks, or a couple of months to get. But whether an item should be unlikely to get, if someone dedicates 8 hours a day, every day, for 2 months, to specifically farming that one thing. Because what we have is the latter.
Like theres people whoa re farming just any titans heart, they’re spending a few days farming it. Granted these are new players, and that grind will go down. But thats a 0 lp, any roll, titans heart. At best more casual players, after some time with theg ame, will need to dedicate a couple of play sessions to getting that. That’s good investment, it means a 1lp is gonna take a week or 2, it means a 2 lp would be something that will take most of the time people put into a league, it measn 3lp is super rare and a very lucky drop, and it means 4lp isnt real.
What that allows, is people who are truly dedicated to the game and mastering it, can aim for a 2lp in a week or two, or a 3lp as the final build defining item, if they aren’t interested in alts. But leaves teh 4lp still, as an impossible item for them as well. Theres no reason 4lp should exist there for me, and from the sounds of it, for you. If you want items that you literally cant obtain, then yes, it’s good chase, becuase you will never reach it. But if you’re viewing that 4lp as an item you could maybe get? Then you’re really misunderstanding lp rarity increases as you go up from 1 to 4.
I really do understand how unlikely it is. I just don’t think it’s bad that some items can be nearly impossible to get, either for me or for anyone else. Like, if we were to come back in ten years and there’s been one person ever in the entire history of LE ever to drop a 4LP Titan’s Heart, I will have had 10 years of not caring and then 60 seconds of “Whoa!”
I’m not though. Not even remotely. I don’t know how to say this without sounding… condescending(?) but I’m not trying to be - I used to think in hardcore terms and now I can’t because my lifestyle has absolutely no room for it and probably never will again. I had to learn how to accept that in any game I play, the “best” things are just flat out going to be out of my reach. So, understand that that’s where I’m coming from when I say things. If there’s an item that’s impossible for nearly everybody to get, that doesn’t bother me and it doesn’t affect how much I enjoy the game. If I let things like that bother me I couldn’t enjoy any game.
Personally, I’ve found that attitude has helped me enjoy games more and get frustrated by them less, especially games like this. And I think other people would benefit from trying to view games the same way - that it’s ok that things exist which you can’t have because none of it’s real anyway.
I think the thing with multiple LP uniques is, that it is a player problem, not a dev problem.
People just having wrong expectations.
If the devs would say:
Titan Heart can only drop with up to 2 LP
Ravenous Void cannot drop with LP
The Falcon can drop with up to 4 LP
That would artifically limit the system and reduce the design space for game systems.
These systems are not designed to give players an illusion to chase, the players the mselves create those illusions for themselves.
These systems are designed to give you unexcpeted outcomes.
The one in a lifetime drop that makes you jump out of your chair high into the air.
Loot in loot driven games needs to be unpredictable and have high ceilings, even if for the most part those ceilings are unreachable.
The legendary system just presents it in a way, that players have wrong expectations more easily.
In other similar games nobody would chase 6-8 variable stat items with perfect rolls on every affix. But the chance is still there
I don’t want to derail this into a LP-only discussion, but I think the Legendary system is one of the best systems in any loot driven ARPG.
People just need to get used to it more.
I mean that’s what my points have been saying, it’s an evolution of the idea of chase in an arpg. Sure. But it’s also nto something people should be expected to inherently just accept as a part of an arpg, becuase it’s new. Imo when you bring in an evolution, or new thing, to a genre, it shuold be justifited somewhat (otherwise why is it there?), and LP as this infinite chase mechanic hasn’t been justified. Limiting what LP would exist would reduce that evolution, and make it something that’s much more familiar. LP not having a limit outside of 4 (which is effcetively infinity for many items, as it will never be seen), is something that’s way less familiar, and people don’t ‘just need to get used to it’ LE need’s to justify why it’s in the game, it doesn’t. People are going to constantly bring up how the system feels bad, because it’s going to feel bad until people get used to it.
Should the response to people needing to put a lot of time into the game, a game that in nearly every area strives to focus on the casual experience most, to make LP feel good be ‘just get used to it’. Or should we look at that as something that might need work on it? Personally I look at the latter. LE isn’t a hardcore, massive grind game. Literally nothing else in the game but LP presents itself that way, or in practice is that way.
It’s also quite telling that you’re equivalent thing in another game is some hypothetical max affix drop, but also has perfect rolls. Whereas for LP discussion perfect rolls isn’t a thing, it’s just getting the item with LP, because no one wants to even entertain the amount of rng and time on getting an LP unique, with good rolls
This is why I posted this thread, not enough player agency. When trade comes apparently the main currency is gold, but gold only has 2 uses - to buy stash tabs and use at the Lightless Casino
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