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Endgame related feedback Monolith

Hello everyone i am a player with four hundred something hours played and i have some concernes about Last Epochs longevity i think is important to adress now in a somehwat early stage because i truley care about the games development.

First off all the skill point system both passive and specialized is incredible, a good portion of the early monolith grind dosent feel like a grind because im allways comparing each run with the last chasing skill points in order to compare and make my very own personal and fun synergy or all around optimal way of beating the game. This theorycrafting fun took a tiny hit with the last patch which makes leveling skills up to twenty in the earlier stages not even possible. But when reaching monolith 90 it is possible again.

Now when all your testing with your characters feels like it has reach an end and there isnt anymore to try out and you have cracked the code on how to beat the game and what items you need to do acquire, Last Epochs monolith philosophy falls a apart.
The whole filosophy about revissiting the same quests in a diferent timeline has the player running fast fast fast from A - B, and then repeat.
The maps are allways the same, the quests are allways the same, the monsters are allways the same, the quests behave identically the same. Rush from here to there as efficient as possible ,repeat that thirty something times before getting a shot at the timeline boss, ofc many more when you die. (Death having consequences in a game is good, affects every decision that a player make, im not saying anything about that)

Now lets add some modifyers such as slow, chill, dodge, crit avoidence, having you run at -18 movment speed not able land attacks from here to there only adds to the teadious nature of the monoliths which is all about getting from A - B, repeat, same scenery, same layout, oh no im starting to repeat myself.

I know Last Epoch is in Beta and hopefully many things will change, what im saying
is that monoliths is boring and there is a tremendous lack of curveballs thrown at the player.

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I don’t understand.

The progression curve got a bit steeper with the last patch, you unlock lvl 20 skills way later (around lvl 75/76)

So the initial progression got prolonged.

This was already a got step into the right direction, becuase before the latest major patch you unlocked all the stuff way to early.

I especially don’t understand this line you wrote:

Even if you have all skills on Lvl 20, you literally need dozens and dozens and dozens of hours to “crack the code” for all the possibilities.

Sure, for your one specific build you might find out all the cool interactions within a few hours, maybe. But even that could take quite some time, depending on how good your understanding is.

Even after playing over 1k hours i sometimes discover new stuff, that was already there, but i just din’t think of a specific interaction.

I do understand sokme of your concerns, but i doubt you already discovered everything.

Also we still have major progression systems not implemented.
And we will just a receive a new endgame related system that gives “new meta progression”.

I have faith, that we will get more and more longjevity for endgame with more future patches.

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Don’t forget Monoliths are one endgame activity, but will not remain the only one. Three others are planned. So don’t see the Monoliths as THE endgame, it’s just part of endgame.

Have you seen this post discussing their future plans? EHG has not yet implemented Epoch’s Call or the Eternity Cache system.

However, in the short time that Monoliths of Fate have been available, we saw an expansion from 7 to 10 MoFs and all 10 now have an empowered version. 5 of those 10 have blessings that buff the player character and the other 5 have blessings that tailor your loot search.

I would expect more Monoliths and bosses down the road, as well as more difficulty settings above normal and legendary (empowered).

Feedback is important, but I think it should take into consideration what already has changed and what will change when projecting on to the future state of the game.

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Can i ask did you follow some build guide?

Because that can narrow your vision how much there is stuff to discover. And monoliths are just boring grinding for that one single item and you try to hurry things up.

Like @Heavy stated that after 1K gaming hours still discovers something new.

Good thing that you gave your feedback so EHG can make game even better.

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I dont follow guides, the less i know the more fun there is to be had imo.

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My concern is with the none existing curve balls thrown at the player while grinding monoliths because everything is the same, somehow your reply back ignores that and hyper focus on what i said as a build up to the issue when Last Epoch falls apart, which is monoliths.

Copy paste
The whole filosophy about revissiting the same quests in a diferent timeline has the player running fast fast fast from A - B, and then repeat.
The maps are allways the same, the quests are allways the same, the monsters are allways the same, the quests behave identically the same. Rush from here to there as efficient as possible ,repeat that thirty something times before getting a shot at the timeline boss, ofc many more when you die.

That is true for every single game out there.

The only thing some aRPG’s have is procedual map generation.

Which will come to LE too at some point.

The thing is “as efficient as possible”… doesn’t mean the same to everybody.

Some people want to farm blessings/boss loot, so they rush, but if you want to farm gear, clearing more and don’t “rush” is also a valid strategy.

I see where you are coming from but i just requote myself

EHG is already working actively on all sorts of stuff to make the game more diverse and varied. We already got teasered a new boss and new enemytypes/chapter.

If you don’t like repetetive gameplayloops, maybe you play the wrong genre, dunno.

That’s exactly the point.
When I see some guys playing Diablo 3 ten hours a day, doing two minutes rifts, I wonder how they can do it. I used to love this game, but I would not resist so long. It’s really a matter of personal preference, but this genre of game is all about repetitivity.

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It is really silly to just say an ARPG is to make endless loopholes, tasteless like a moron for hours, it’s been like forever … Well we’ve always been doing shit. Bringing diversity to an ARPG is not worthy of satan. The monolyte in the current state is boring to die, let’s say things, after I am patient it is a beta without doubt of the improvements to come, but I do not like between well it is like its always so it will remain so. hunting equipment yes, a little bashing yes, a little novelty and diversity yes too.

As I said on another post, already putting more bosses in the monolyte limits one to each flaw and not a mob that makes one shot, a real boss with a minimum of strategy, not necessarily an incredible thing but which forces a little to adapt. And then for when the multi will be tested and functional leaving “dungeons” a bit like MMOs would be good, I never understood why ARPGs are never inspired by MMO style, dungeons with a large number of mobs. with an action style of the ARPG, but with real bosses interesting a bit like FF14 (but with ARPG sauce) You release something like this from time to time with a DLC or other (I also think of the finance of the games) you destroy the market, you stop making clones.

Very personal response and opinion: because MMOs are as boring as it is possible to be. There might be (no, in fact there ARE) several good things in MMOs, but overall they are among the most boring kind of games I’ve ever tried.
All is a matter of personal preference, of course. :wink:

I can understand that this may not appeal to everyone, after that I am not talking about taking the whole system away from it. Personally, what I like about good MMOs is bosses and often pretty cool dungeons. What I like about an ARPG is the action side, nervous and quite enjoyable to explode hundreds of trash. But what I find bad in all ARPGs is the end game, it’s always the same and sucks, endless dungeons without flavor where the goal is speedrun without any goal. The ideal would be to combine the best of both worlds, keep the neurphew side, action of the ARPG, but bring more strategic dimension to certain combat, and dungeons work a little with a little level disign.

That’s what I liked in Diablo 3 and Wolcen, then I discovered Last Epoch and I changed my mind. I still like these games, but I also love LE’s pace.

I would tend to agree, it’s inherent to the genre. In LE it’s a bit better because of the story of each timeline, but overall it remains the same main idea: kill mobs.

Here is in the end for the moment, the only criticism that I make in LA, obviously knowing that the games will evolve, but it is the end of the games, I manage to play several hours in a row to the games in history, but arriving at the end of time, well I can’t do it after 10 runs I can’t take it anymore I’m already enough. I don’t feel invested, I find its way too simple. I really like the game against arena system, in multiplayer it’s going to be fun. But the monolyte is still very boring. I hope that this game will dare to take risks, after I come up with an idea, but whatever, we just have to do something other than these endless and uninteresting dungeons.

I apologize in case for my English I am French, and google translate does the texts for me. I also can’t wait to see a translation, and a French chat that creates would be a pleasure for me, because unfortunately my level of English is very poor, at best I can understand certain sentence that’s all.

That’s what is both ridiculous and funny in these sites or forums. You can see two guys talking in English for a while, then you discover that je suis Français moi aussi. ^^

For me it’s the completely opposite.

Arena is boring and uninsirped AF and MoF is what keeps me playing LE.

But the next major patch will bring new additions to endgame and a new meta-progression, so you might already have something to play soon™

We still missing several other planned endgame modes/activities and i am sure there will be some sort of variety and not the same grind in another skin.

Of course I am aware that this is currently only a beta and indeed a good meta in are together. For the moment I am testing characters, I try different builds, I have 5 characters level 60-70. It is true that beyond that I am lazy to spam the monolytes

I have the same problem. I want to test a large amount of builds, so I tend not to play any of them for long. Only one of my heroes did all the timelines, only two others went up to the Emperor of Corpses. For the others I didn’t have enough patience, I wanted to test newer ideas.

Personally I don’t see it as too much of a problem. Spells will probably change before the game is released, so personally testing lvl 100 opti stuff characters isn’t really my goal of this meta. But rather find out which character I feel generally good with. And then, my bladedancer is almost 80, and I run on flaws, so I can already say that I tested the character well.

I have two heroes higher than 80 and maybe five others higer than 70. All the rest (and there are many) are between 50 and 70. Some have not been played after the campaign, or hardly.