I’m the opposite. I used to only follow build guides but it got boring. Now I don’t play ARPGs if I have to follow a build guide (or devote 40+ hours of planning to the build outside of the game)
I have probably made something like 200 characters in LE… most aren’t amazing, of course, but that’s part of the fun for me. If I get stuck I ask for advice on my build rather than look it up.
I do of course expect that I’m an exception and most people aren’t like this
Might be derailing the thread but maybe we should just derail all threads related to drops and trade until EHG makes some kind of announcement
Separate reply because this one’s more on-topic I think?
The dungeons are more than just the boss drops though. One of them is for making legendaries, which, admittedly, one might not do often.
Another is the Soul Gambler - which is a great alternative item farming method.
The other is… for the rich. So play long enough and it’s useful to you once!
I like the Soul Gambler the most as it has more use than the other two if you run the dungeon multiple times in a row. All three dungeons do have some benefits outside of the final boss/end rewards: you can get increased drop rates of specific items/rarities while in the dungeon, from normal enemies and from the boss. They’re a nice alternative to echoes, though I do think there should be more to do other than echoes and dungeons.
He didn’t mean that using a guide was wrong or bad. He meant that one of the effects of streamers is to make people believe that build X is the best and that they won’t enjoy builds that don’t perform as well as build X. That effect skews the community’s perception of what “good” or “viable” is towards the more numerically comparable “clears Y in Z mins”. And while powerful builds are fun, less powerful but possibly more mechanically interesting or flashy can be just as fun if not as numerically strong or click-bait worthy.
I give people more benefit than that, I think viewers are capable of understanding that bigger number = faster and more efficient, without a streamer having to tell them. If they want someone with less numbers that more mechanically interesting or fun or whatever, they’ll go for that./ Theres a reason enki arc is (? not sure if it still is) the most viewed build guide, even though its by far not the best.
While i will agree that some people, such as myself, are using streamers as a form of entertainment and take their advice with a grain of salt, the number of new player questions in-game, on Discord and Reddit about the best build/skill/etc suggests a significant number are engaging with build guides and “efficiency” as a primary form of decision-making.
Yes, and thats okay. Why is it wrong for someone to ask for the best build in terms of efficiency, and get given what that content creator thinks is it lmao
But, we shouldn’t ignore the negative consequences (community build polarisation, divergent early game experiences, reduced understanding of game mechanics, reduction in long-term satisfaction).
Particularly not if we wish to have a constructive dialogue.
Sorry, yes, I can see that… “Necessary evil”, a common expression, means something useful and even needed, but with negative sides.
I never meant that streamers are evil or bad, as persons. I only meant that their work, while useful in some aspects, also have negative effects, especially on build diversity, because they showcase min-maxed perfect builds.
I also entirely agree with that. And we have (or at least used to), great examples of that on these very forums.
But I think it is a good thing if people share IDEAS for builds, and discuss around them. With skill tree and concepts being the main focus (I miss you, Shtrak).
First, video is not a good support for discussions. Second, presenting a build of extremely high level, with godlike items, played by a full-time very skilled player, distorts it, it becomes hard to see what comes from the build and what comes from the crazy strong items.
That’s why I think the way youtubers present builds has exactly the opposite effect.
The youtube channel with the most uploaded builds for LE doesn’t use godlike items in their builds, and only uses what they have found themselves, a lot of the time not running close to bis for stuff, having things like t16 items and such.
Also for a lot of people video guides for builds is the format that they want. Again, this is just you saying what you don’t like to engage with, and that’s fine. But some people do really enjoy this type of content, and it enhances their gameplay experience, and that’s fine also. This part of this discussion has become nothing about drop rates, items etc… and solely about ‘these people play the game in a way i don’t enjoy, so they’re wrong’, this is just gatekeeping and doesn’t belong in last epoch.
Not everyone wants to engage in discussion on how a build should be run, some people want to see what other people are playing, so they can play it to. That’s fine.
For me one doesn’t mean the other. Imagine a system a bit like the loot filter but the more you filter out the higher the chance or magic find of what will show up. It can be semi- deterministic. Say the item you have filtered for has a 1% drop chance if it doesn’t drop on the first kill it increases to 2% and ad diminishing returns to the increase.
The loot can or cannot be tied to a boss I understand you don’t like it I myself am not sure.
I think one of my problems is that the item target system is not strong enough and I get a lot of loot that is good just simply not for my character. I would gladly have 80% less good but not usable loot and 2x the loot for my specific character. Have a look at the post above I did for an example on how to do it. I can imagine more systems to do so as well.
Hack & Slays bread & Butter is to not give you the items you want otherwise you realise how little to non content is in that kind of games.
Speeding up loot aquisation to much or in a to specific way just hurts the longlifity of Hack & Slay games. Not getting the loot I want ios a common problem for me and will always be and so I have to farm dozens and hundrets of hours while other people say “LooooooooL I have 13 of these I don’t pick them up anymore… duuude wtf!”.
That’s the beauty of rng because if you have a meaningfull crafting system for example where you can pay craftsman to craft the items you want you ned a lot more content then every Hack & Slay on the market offers. Goodl old rng and how the human brain is wirered will keep bad loot systems in place forever and I have no hopes any dev team on the world will change the formula and keep on milking the cow until a droplet is quinched out of it.
Get used to 90% rubbish items in LE it is what it is and I hardly doubt we see something remotley close to smart loot or “I can manipulate the game system that much over tie so I get a Bastion drop with 100% chance.”.
Hm I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me and being cynical about some “issues”. I for one think and want:
Get the item I’m looking for a little easier then how it is now. But cut down on al other loot by a lot. My lizard brain would be happier if a unique/legendary/set item that drops is actually useful to me but I se very very few unique/legendary/set items over all. I don’t want an inventory stash tab management simulator.
As it stands i’m still looking for an item while having completed several sets necessary unique for other classes and specs. This removes the joy of then trying these specs out because there is nothing to play for with them. I’m already maxed out just need to lvl equip them and then what?
Give me much less over all loot give me a tiny bit more loot i’m looking for (implement a system for that “search”) and I would be happy :D. Just looking for like minded people or learn/ hear what other people would enjoy in the game. It feels you answer more what you think is the general idea of what an ARPG is among most people then saying what you want or enjoy.
I just want reasonable lootrates like 10h per item tops and many more hours to find upgrades for said items with restricted free trade with my friends.
I like to share the wealth with my friends so to speak while having a good time in and outside of groups with said friends.
If we get D3 like droprates we might get serious drops and potential upgrades in a meaningfull way but I’m not happy with loot pinatas and I wish there were meaningfull ways to get the equipment you want but we have a rng system in place and even if you push the loot chance to 98% there will still be people who need 10 runs to get the item.
I simply don’t hink we’ll see any meaningfull change and things will be like the sudden increase in exalts… just numeric increases.
So if i’m understanding correctly you want the chase to be closer to perfect roles on what would be considered a chase item, not any version of the item at all being the chase?
