I believe you are overthinking this part. First and formost remove the word real from the discussion. This is an ARPG. If as you mentioned before and the base starting gold price for all items in a true ingame gold currency auction house was set then then they could have some basic algos behind the scenes. But the main thing is with it being anonymous and them in control it would not even need to be a direct one to one buy and selll. Going through their code and unable to see your own item on the sell list due to slight obfuscation and partial listing. How would you evem know if a real person bought you item, and why would either side of any auction house transaction need to know?
1 Like
But POE was literally designed around player crafting and trade, with their ‘currency items’ system. Not to mention the overwhelming number of “league” systems that have to be navigated to craft an item nowadays, and it’s a perfect storm for the trade cluster-fuck it has become. That’s not the fault of trade, itself, but POEs insistence on being an overly complicated mind fuck of “synergistic” systems that are involved when creating items… Synthesis, Corruption, Influence, Beast Crafting, etc etc etc it’s too much to expect any player to just farm up on their own
But another problem with POE is that items are never taken out of the economy. As I have mentioned, simply making any item that has been crafted, bound to that player, you remove items as they are being used/consumed. That alone limits the OH MUH GAWD! Item Flooding that so many have nightmares about. And lessens the balance issues that are also brought up due to trade presenting an alternative way to obtain gear. That 3LP Salt of the Earth? Welp, it’s out of the economy the moment it gets crafted.
I realize that this is not an easy problem to solve (and perhaps even impossible), but I was hoping for something more than just gifting..
It’s a conventional game, it should have a conventional trading system.
There is an easy solution to this problem, and that is limited trading.
An item drops with at least 1 FP, and it can be tradable X numbers of times. Every time the item is traded from one account to another, one trade is deduced from X until it is traded enough to reach 0 and then it’s account bound to the last person it was traded to.
This variable X can be tweaked to be similar to LP whereas the higher the item the lower X’s value is to avoid trivializing the player experience via buying your way through the game.
Fresh items will have the most value based on remaining trades and if it’s a highly desirable chase item, while items with less remaining trades will have a diminished value which will make it slightly easier for people to buy that want to use it. This in turn makes the drop highly satisfactory for the person who got it, and can still be sold if it’s an item that is a chase item but is irrelevant to the player. This way, there is no permanent flooding via freely unlimited trade, there’s no monopolization of chase items because of limited trades, and simultaneous grouping is not the only de facto way of helping your friend(s) gear themselves.
For anyone that is vehemently against trading, nothing is forcing you to trade if it’s available as an option. Have and not need vs need and not have.
1 Like
Well, a market flooded with LP0-1 Uniques of basically minimal value wouldn’t be something I’d expect to exist here like it does in PoE, so I agree with limited tradeable items by a random number on drop.
Why should the number of tradeable times dimish the price? If I want to buy Item X I buy the cheapest one with the best rolls and don’t give a steaming pile of s*** if it is tradeable after because I want to use it.
I think that’s a wrong assumption to make.
Sure it is depending on the number of players. If 100k players play the game and everyone puts one unique in the AH this will be a huge mass. There was a poll about trading and in this example 33%% of the playerbase don’t even want to trade. If everyone buys one item per day there will still be 33k added items per day.
No matter how you look at it the market will be flooded and that’s not the end of the world… pricing is a problem and droprates are a problem.
With your idea of trade we are in the free unrestricted terretory even if every item is only tradeable once because the influx of items is to high. With this approach droprates needed to be nerfed and all the people who are againt trade will riot.
That’s not true at all if EHG is implementing your idea. The droprates needed to be nerfed extremely because if not every unique in game will be available in 2-3 days for 501 gold (or whatever currency). This unavoidable droprate nerf makes trade nessesary and force people to trade or to have a bad time.
If there is free trade the market will be flooded in days. At lategame farming on 200+ corruption there are a lot of items that drop and on top of it… are we talking about a AH only for uniques or do we talk about an AH for all items? If it is for all items the thing will be gigantic and maybe needs a whole server itself ^^.
The important thing is that there should be a way to take items out of the market.
That’s because LE in his early access is focused on no-trading gameplay… And seems that EHG and some players want that, so I’m only talking about “What if they decide to implement trade?”. Besides, you say it, modify drop rates for trading-economy will make a part of the community get mad.
I don’t like auction houses to be honest, but i’m referring to a general market place of all type of items. Again, just a “What if…?” because seems they will not take this path.
Yeah but the influx of items will be bigger then the need of said items. There will be cases of chase items that are rarer but there will always be bad versions of said items in the market even if the drop rates are PoE style.
“You have recieved a message from tradehouse NPC Gregory” “Your items did not sell in the alloted time of 3 in game days”(6hrs) and have been processed for scrap" “the processing resulted in a few shards which have been automatically deposited in your forge account” 
2 Likes
Again, nothing is forcing anyone to trade. It’s purely opt in no matter how you spin it.
Secondly, 100k players all putting one unique in is not going to be 100k uniques of the same item. Different LP and different affixes are already going to distinguish build enabling vs marginal min-max upgrading.
Drop rates in their current form are still so generous that unless you’re specifically talking about high corruption chase items then people already have duplicates of them.
The point of the limited trades is that once it changes ownership so many times, it’s automatically removed from the economy.
True, nobody’s forcing ssf players to suffer the reduced drop rates that trade generally entails.
Oh.
Wait…
Very true, and it’s the generous drop rates that those who don’t want trade don’t want changing.
The reduced drop rates of monos that can be target farmed very effectively, while doubling down on crafting with Runes of Ascendance ?
So what’s the push back against trading then? If the majority of people already have the items they want, why all this grand standing about how it’s going to catastrophically destroy the gameplay loop?
Unless there are temporary leagues or some kind of wipe mechanic the inevitability that everyone with eventually have LP4 chase items is just a matter of time.
Because any modern ARPG, where the developer cares about longevity of their content and not having the players steam roll it in 3 days, always reduces drop rates to compensate for trade. And no, asking the developer to provide 3 or 4 different modes is not practical or likely to happen, nor has ever been done even by the large studios.
There will be temporary leagues. What they look like nobody has any idea, they might just be an economy reset (ie, everybody gets access to any new content) or they might be like PoE (ie, standard league doesn’t get the new stuff).
Yes, because the drop rates would have to be reduced from what they are now otherwise people would be geared up even more quickly than they are at the moment.
TBF, that kinda happens in PoE anyway, even with the drop rates.
The drop rates that are going to be nerfed once the gifting patch hits, and then again once LE exits the beta testing phase into live launch? This is going to happen. The only thing I am discussing is if you get to either sell it to a non-grouped person, or give it to a friend at a later time that was not in group at the time of the item dropping.
This is non factor because as it currently stands shared account stash means the only character that struggles will be the first character made, and all alts that follow will have the walk in the park that will subvert the “longevity of the content”
There will be cycles similar to other games “Seasons”. Very few players in any current or future arpg games will play “standard”. If they do prefer that and get to a certain level where they can accumalate some bis items usable on different character once they meet whatever level requirememt, then good for them. Show me any current arpg development house where this is a concern.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking for. I apologize if I misinterpreted your post.
My point was even in a new league, new season, post wipe, or whatever the feature may be called, the only character that will struggle will be the first. All characters after that will breeze through the leveling process into monoliths using gear obtained from the first character’s playthrough or farming. So this notion that every character will struggle and experience some magical journey through to end game is simply something that won’t exist unless it’s voluntary and essentially a self imposed challenge.
And my statement still stands, no arpg developer is concerned about alts. And in several cases where the developer wanted to or the players asked for it a strict ssf mode can be implemented. This mode also would be affected with how drop tables are implememted in all modern arpgs, if trade is implemented without restriction. No current or past developer that I’m aware of has ever implemented multiple drop tables for different modes.
Van Helsing gives more loot on HC. I am sure there are many others. (Just nitpicking, but this sentence sounded way too affirmative to be true.)
Anyway, just to chime in as a player who almost never trades: I would personally be against different drop rates for different modes. SSF, and even more HC, are supposed to be more challenging. Drop rates have to be the same as standard or you lose the feeling of extra challenge.
[I am of course talking about proper SSF and HC modes, not the watered-down PoE aberrations where you can transfer back from SSF at any time, and so-called hardcore characters don’t even die. Pathetic.]
1 Like
In the same breath: Does it NOT need a conventional trading system the answer is YES. Fact. Items you have that someone elas wants can’t be traded/gifted if they’re not in the instance when it drops, relegating it to shards or vendor trash, on top of being drop-table fluff since it has no other purpose.
Don’t know why act like people who played D2 back in the day didn’t wish for a marketplace for items…using Bliz failing at the implementation as the pincushion for messing it up as their core argument on why trade bad, when trade the only reason why PoE has people playing it (and if you think it’s because the game is fun, take a gander at SSF + SSF HC population on PoE compared to SC…that game would be DEAD without trade league, because more people value their time than have nothing else going on in their lives but to stream 10-12 hours a day).