Please not again. I logged in and saw that HC chars remain alive in SC now. This is a mistake that actually harms the HC community. The decision doesn’t draw people in or give them a reason to try HC You either enjoy HC or you don’t and once a HC players character migrates to SC its deleted or abandoned. I’m not sure the finalized trading system that LE will have but we’ve seen this every single temp league in PoE. The already small hardcore economy gets ruined by the fact that HC temp league chars remain alive in SC perm leagues and cheaters in SC use RMT to snatch powerful items out of the market. These cheaters tend to have nearly endless money/forum points from other games and legit players can’t compete with them in terms of pricing. (Easiest example is Replica Nebulis which was useless in HC during Heist league but was still one of the most expensive items in HC because people would buy them, RIP them over, and sell them in SC perm. In fact, it got so bad there ended up being more Replica Nebulis’s on the SC Perm trade than on the HC temp league DURING Heist. This also happened to all the powerful aura alt gems. Can we not have this happen all over again in LE please. It’s senseless to make HC chars persist past death. No HC player in PoE touches their character once it dies unless its to RMT. Just remove it from LE and save everyone the headache.
I don’t see why this is a problem. The RMTing that you describe may not be an issue in LE & if we take that out then ultimately LE’s implementation of HC isn’t pure enough for you. I’m not sure whether the seller name will appear on the AH and if it doesn’t then you wouldn’t be able to do that kind of RMT.
I’d argue that it does give them a reason to try HC because when the character dies they can then choose to delete it or not rather than have that choice forced upon them.
I kinda get their point, if we can trade items we got on hardcore, on softcore after dying, it means the hardcore trade economy is going to, for the most part, be balanced around the soft core market, because soft core will have such a substantially higher playerbase.
It would be nice to see any items equipped/in inventory get an untradeable tag when a character dies in hardcore.
While I’ve left my HC days mostly behind, this is EXACTLY what the OP is talking about. I totally get it, even if it’s not something I personally will plant my flag on.
A lot of what makes HC, HC is the fact that you have to go in at the start knowing: there are NO takebacks. None. No participation trophy. No do-overs. No safety net, what-so-ever. Heck I remember the outrage the HC D3 community had when Quin69 was testing something on the actual D3 Con servers and the lag killed his character. Blizzard reinstated it. The rage from the HC community was pretty palpable, there was a big faction that said, 'nope, that ain’t legit HC, doesn’t matter how he lost it, you die, you’re dead and it’s gone.
I also understand a lot of people might find this mentality silly, or not understand it, that’s cool as well. But, I think the OP has lays out a legitimate suggestion/request.
Yeah exactly all this, if people that exclusively play softcore start arguing about why thigs in hardcore are fine actually, we might as well start having people that exclusively play hardcore complaining about how in softcore when you die in a monolith, you don’t have to redo the entire campaign to unlock them again.
Hardcore should always exist for people that want to play hardcore. Softcore for people that want to play softcore. I’ve never personally thought about the fact hardcore characters live on, because I’ve played a total of one dead hc character, and that was just to do some testing a while later. Personally I don’t think it’s needed that they live on, but also I don’t think it’s not needed.
However there are potential problems created by them living on, and those are things worth discussing, without this just devolving into softcore players making arguments to why hardcore shouldn’t be actually hardcore.
I’m still not seeing why the game needs to be responsible for a person’s self-control. If you truly desire the Genuine Hardcore Experience™, then when your character dies, just delete it from SC. I mean. What is stopping you, if that’s really your mentality? Otherwise, who really cares, either way? “Oh noes, he’s not really HC, he still has some of his ded characters on his SC character list! POSEUR!!!”
Hell, how many quoteunquote Hardcore players in POE have a logout hotkey? So yeah, let’s not go down that “REAL Hardcore Experience” rabbithole.
So just manually delete the HC character after it dies instead of letting it drop to SC. If the risk that comes with loss of character on death is what you care about with HC as a feature, any difference between player and game enforced deletion is imaginary.
Hey look, another thread wher epeople instantly don’t read what is actually said by anyone, and just jump to assuming something based on their bias.
OP: Being able to trade items on your dead hc character would be bad for HC.
Random people: You can just delete your character after it dies.
Like come on ya’ll, heavys thread already devolved into people making up random stuff he said, at least when the forums were just mackum and llama arguing with people people mostly stuck to the original points raised.
Kinda weird to accuse people of not reading and then appear to have not read who and what those people actually replied to, don’t you think?
Both comments here talking about self enforced deletion are replies specifically to someone talking about the attraction of game enforced deletion.
It has nothing to do with self control. One could argue that if you don’t want to play “real” hardcore have the self control not to check the button and then rage when your character dies.
Why not? That’s the only difference between the game imposing the deletion and you imposing the deletion yourself - That you could choose not to do it.
If someone loses the feeling of risk/excitement in HC because they know they technically could choose not to delete the character, that seems to suggest they don’t 100% trust themselves to delete the character, does it not?
That’s a really long fishing pole, you’re casting out, man.
You’re welcome to debate the merits of who has more or less self-control.
No final death, no hardcore, plain and simple. You can CALL it hardcore all you want, but if you’ve got the option to take your consolation prize, it’s just softcore with an asterix. Why have hardcore when it’s the same as soft? That’s what’ve we’ve got now. So if that’s the way it stays, I’d say just get rid of it. I mean if you want to play hardcore, just play softcore and delete your character if it dies, right?
You’re welcome to try to explain to me where the real, actual, meaningful difference is between a player enforcing deletion of their character after it dies and the game doing the same thing. Because unless we’re talking about a player that doesn’t trust themselves not to take the out, all I see there is an attempt at purism based on a distinction without a difference.
I’m confused. Can hardcore characters only trade with hardcore characters? Are hardcore characters automatically self-found? I’m more interested in why the hardcore character becoming softcore disrupts the balance of hardcore, because I’m missing a key detail here about why it matters other than the “feeling” of hardcore.
I still don’t get why. Those items would exit the hc economy either way.
Not surevif I should be insulted or not…
Is a hc character more hc than a sc character that gets deleted bybthe player after the first death?
Yes (i think, when trade is implemented).
No.
I think it’s because the player deleting the character isn’t “pure”/proper hc.
Becuase people will look at the more active market, sc, to determine price of the rarer items. If they don’t get those prices on the hc market, they, in this situation, will either accept a loss in value to sell it on hc, or keep it listed high until they push content they think they might die in, then delist it and keep it on them to sell on softcore.
There’s a motivation to value the more expensive stuff around what softcore can give for it, even if just for getting the gold to then buy things to test with on your sc side (as testing stuff is probably the most common way to engage with softcore for hardcore players)
Obviously the lack of retrading items removes some of the issues, but just not letting people trade items they bring over with them when they die would fix all trade issues that could be fixed (obviously would still be an element of ‘well its worth this much on sc’, that cant be fixed by the devs)
The OP states that its about hc players that die being able to trade items they’ve got in hardcore with softcore characters. People brought up ‘but you can just delete your character’, which completely misses the entire point.
PoE does this right imo, your dead league HC character is taken to standard, and who plays standard. When we get league content, I think it would be a mistake to allow the HC character to participate in league SC. Standard is the graveyard, let em go there.
yeah this would also work great, guess theres somewhat of an assumption that hardcore would stay in the league, which is my bad.
Whatever the decision is, allowing the hc character to continue in league could very well have negative implications on the economy, so I feel that would be a mistake.
When my HC characters die, they die. I dont even want to see them ever again lol.