Intent:
Fireball is a classic spell and in its current design can be used within builds that push end game content. That being said at times it can feel awful to use or outclasses when you compare it to other spells of a similar role, like Lightning Blast. Both spells fill a similar roll as a low to mid cost damage spell with a low/no CD so that it is spammable. From my experience, you can get far more damage and survive-ability out of Lightning Blast with minimal gear or character passive point committed to improving it. Goal is to look into the skill tree to try an understand what makes Fireball feel less than great at times. I am not trying to homogenize skills but rather identify design similarities and differences between skills
Definitions:
- Tier - Number of nodes to go through to get to said node. Example T1 is the first nodes off from the center. T2 nodes will require âxâ number of points in a T1 node and so on.
- Build Defining - Bolded in table. These nodes will change the way the skill is used and at least one of them is likely to be present in any build. Usually a couple tier deep and the node has a max point of 1.
Assumptions:
- This is not about the numbers. The devs could scale up the numbers so the damage is comparable
- This is not a call for nerf or buff, just observations for the devs to use as they see fit.
- Build defining skills are personal opinion, there may be more or less
- General theory crafting practice is to put minimum number of points in a node to get to the key nodes. Nodes that add great value to the build will then add the max number of points into the node to get the most value. Exception, if build is complete and there are leftover point than some point maybe be dropped elsewhere for added value/flavor but not required to make build work or not enough points are available to max out node due to the limit of 20 points available for the build.
- Each node within a tier adds similar amounts of value and the value that they add differentiated by build identity. As you move through the tier the value that they add is increased from the previous tier due the extra commitment needed to get to these nodes.
Data/Discussion (See Table for Ref):
Node Analysis
A simple start point is to review the number of nodes, tiers, and points available to choose from. Fireball skill tree contains 27 nodes, has 6 tiers of nodes, and to fill the entire tree will require 91 points. Lightning Blast skill tree contains 27 nodes, has 4 tiers of nodes, and to fill the entire tree will require 70 points. This results in Fireball having and average points per node of 3.37 and Lightning Blast of 2.59. Under the assumption (which is not true) that all nodes cost the same and each node add equal value Fireball would be able to purchase 5.93 nodes and Lightning Blast can purchase 7.71 nodes given the max of 20 points to use per skill. While this cannot accurately depict how builds are made or the power associated with them it does seem like each point in Lightning Blast goes further due to the reduced total cost.
Now we will did into the tiers and node costs to get a more realistic cost for nodes. Each tier after T1 requires a minimum number of points before you can move to the next tier. For Fireball, T2 ranges from a minimum of 2 to 5 points (this includes 1 point in the T2 skill to get its value). For all the T2 nodes it averages out to about 3.11 points for a T2 node, T3 range 4 to 7 with average of 5.43, T4 range 6 to 7 with average of 6.5, T5 range/average of 8, and T5 range/average of 9. For Lightning Blast; T2 range 2 to 5 with average of 2.92, T3 range 3 to 7 with average of 4.83, and T4 range 5 to 7 with average of 6. The Fireball average cost to jump tiers in higher for all tiers and there are more tiers to jump pending on the nodes that you want and the difference between cost gets larger with increased tiers with Lightning Blast not even having a T5 or T6. These are minimums just to get 1 point in a node in that tier and for the most part nodes have multiple points with the except of some key 1 point nodes. Once you pick a node that you want to use for a build it will most likely be maxed out to get the full value and the remain points will be used to flesh out the build. For Fireball, if you choose a T2 skill the max you will have to spend ranges from 4 to 8, T3 ranging 5 to 13, T4 ranging 7 to 8, T5 ranging 8 to 14, T6 is 13. Looking at Lightning Blast T2 ranging 3 to 6, T3 ranging 4 to 8, T4 ranging 6 to 10. Overall, it costs Fireball more points within the tiers to get that one skill you want maxed out with every other requirement meeting the min required; Wildfire, Plasma Ball, Eternal Fire, Magma Shell, and Infernal Legacy being the worst offenders. Also, Magma Shell is a prerequisite for Infernal Legacy so if you max out both you will be left with 1 point to use elsewhere in the build. The most you need to commit to max out 1 node for Lightning Blast is 10 and that is a T4 node (the furthest node). Wildfire and Plasma Ball at T3 nodes and they cost 13 and 10 respectively.
Other Fireball Pain Points
- Mana Spheres to Unchained Fire to Flamethrower
Mana Spheres is a very valuable talent to help reduce cost and keep the skill spammable. With other nodes adding spell cost I can understand Unchained Fire following it to set cost to 0 even if it isnt the greatest feeling it is a tradeoff and not all tradeoffs are 100% positive. Flamethrower is where it starts to feel truly awful. You just spent 4 point to bring your cost to 0 only to add a 30 mana per second channel drain in the next node and then you need to spend another 5 points in Eternal Fire to make that drain reasonable. Flamethrower completely negates you 4 point commitment prior to it and adds a total of 9 points for just mana efficiency. Personal Opinion: Mana nodes should not be prerequisites of flame thrower.
- Piercing
Fireball feels awful to use without piercing. This is personal opinion and may just be a choice I have to make but requiring 4 points in Piercing Heat or 2 points in Ghostfire to get 100% penetration and then tacking on percentile mana cost is a lot compared to other design choices.
- Homing
This too feels awful to use without but I understand the tradeoff. The problem is the commitment required to get Seekerâs Ash. A tier 3 node with a commitment of 6 points (including homing node point) for just homing does not seem like a even tradeoff. Other skills get homing baseline (seems weaker in comparison though) or better (Shield Throw). In comparison, Lightning Blast Hypercharge requires 6 points and not only is it a point and click spell but you have chance of quad cast and the chance for double cast from T2. Personal Opinion: In itâs current state Seekerâs Ash feels like a T1 or T2 with 1 point commitment at most. Additional power needs to be added to the node to keep it as a T3.
Other Points of Interest
Lightning Blastâs Supercharged Flows can be achieved by committing 1 point in the Rune of Winter Mage Character Passive Tree. While this is not a 1 for 1 trade the main value is changing the damage type to cold and the spell gaining freeze rate. This is a minimal cost compared to the 1 to 3 skill points required of the Lightning Blast Skill Tree pending your build. If you were already planning on taking Bitter Burst then the point is moot but there seems to be much better options in the skill tree and freeze rate multiplier can be made up for with character passive points or gear.
Other Classes with Comparable Skills (Level 0)
Acolyte - Hungering Souls
- Multiple Projectiles Baseline
- Projectile Homing Baseline (not as strong)
- Increased mana cost
Sentinel - Hammer Throw
- Piercing Baseline
- Projectile returns baseline which also has piercing
- Similar mana cost
Table:
Tab 1 - Fireball
Tab 2 - Lightning Blast
Fireball vs LB.zip (13.3 KB)
Background:
- Almost 200 hours in game
- Leveled multiple mages
- spent some time in monos and arena as mage
- not an expert player
- Current Patch: 0.7.9e