Here you go again putting words in my mouth. Point where I said slamming the crafting button until I can’t is the most efficient? Again you’re acting like you’re the most intelligent being here and all of us stupid peasants don’t even know anything about how to craft properly. No shit it’s not advisable to keep slamming the craft button without a backup. Of course it’s not advisable to slam it when chances are very high the item will break unless you already have a back up. That’s the current iteration of the crafting system.
Just because I don’t like the current system doesn’t mean I want to go to a system where there’s no limit and no choice. I want choice. I want limits. I don’t want the current limit. I don’t want the current choices available. I want more choices. I want to be able to interact with fractures. I want to be able to invest into fixing fractures using resources. I want the system to allow me to interact with the fracture system without changing the limit. I still want high tier gear hard to get. Nothing I’ve suggested in this thread goes against what I’ve just said about wanting limits, interactions, and choices. It is consistent with what I’ve been saying and consistent with my thoughts that the current system has very little choice involved. It has very little depth to it. You get affix shards. You get a base item with the affixes at the highest level possible. You consider how much you want to risk using glyph of stability. If you reach your limit you start using glyph of guardian. You consider the risk of a damaging fracture depending on whether you have a back up. If you don’t then you stop once there’s a high chance of a damaging fracture. If you have a back up and you’re aiming for a tier above your current item then you keep going. Rinse and repeat. There’s almost no variation to the steps above. It’s straight risk management with the only variable being 1) current item and 2) affix rarity. Once you figure out how much you’re willing to risk you just hit the craft button and leave it up to RNG. Nothing interactive about it. Either it’s relief or “fuck I’m off for today”.
The foundation is there but everyone knows there’s a lot of work to be done. This is my last reply to you as it’s obvious you don’t have a single clue about how to read, understand, and make your points without being an ass. At this point it’s just about giving my feedback hoping the devs read and hope they understand some of the points being made. If you’re happy with the current system then kudos to you. I’m sure you’re satisfied with the game being released with the current crafting system. But I for one sure am not gonna continue if this system stays as is. I’ve had my fair share of this type of crafting system in other games and it’s never been a great experience. Never been much of a gambler as I like to be able to have my actions and choices lead to a desired result. I want my capability to increase my chances. If I’m not capable and perform poorly then I 100% accept the failed result. What I can’t accept is the result being 100% determined by chance.
First I like the carfating as it is in LE.
I already does some post on this or other thread about crafting.
I am part of those that don’t feel as losing an item when item fracture, but I understabnd your point.
I really feel like the loot filter will solve a lot of complain as finding good bas will be far easier.
One solution that I see to reconciliate the “both side” is the following:
keep fracture (perhaps not damaging and only minor, but damaging work too)
create a rune that “repair” fratured item. Of course this rune must be very rare.
It will remove the fractured tag, without reducing instability or repair damaging affix. But with that If you really like an item that as be fractured, you can try again and never lose it (but at some point, if you are really unlucky, the unstability will be too hight ).
Remember that this rune must be very rare. Perhaps get one or two as quest.
I agree with most of your last post.
If you look back at my first post you replied to, I didn’t say YOU were the one slamming craft until it broke and then complaining about it. I said there are a lot of people on here that do that. You then argued against it as if people don’t do that.
I think the current system is shallow. I want ways to interact with fractures as well. I don’t agree with removing damaging and destructive. It removes much of the mental interaction if that is done.
Just what to have something clarified
“A critical success will be called out similarly to a fracture, and will cause an affix to be upgraded to a higher tier. This is most likely, but not guaranteed, to be the affix you had been crafting at the time.”
Will it always be one the the affixes already present on the item or is there a chance the item will just randomly add an affixes if there is a place for it?
7.10 update
After being quite vocal about crafting on this thread, it’s worth some praise where it is due.
First, the changes were clearly well thought out, and well explained - thanks Last Epoch team.
The new loot filter fixes all the sorting through crap problem.
The critical success does something to mitigate the chances of a fracture (one less chance for instability, one less glyph used up, one chance for a feel good)
The lower rate of damaging fractures makes me feel a bit better about the (still high) rate of minor fractures on the first few crafts.
The key change is the loot filter!
Being able to filter out affixes/trash items has made it clearer just how much farming is required to find a decent affix, then enough decent items, then give yourself enough chance to craft them into something useful. While it’s still too much grind and RNG for my taste, the improvement on the old system is immense.
Haven’t played in a while and am reading up on all the changes since, I like what I’m reading here!
You added a lot of what I asked for here Crafting/Fracturing Mechanic - #42 by wooser and I’m looking forward to whatever the new runes and glyphs are. Hope that glyphs get fleshed out to being more than just using nothing but guardian.
seem interesting , im guessing that the fact it is a random affix that upgrade is important ? cause else it could be interesting when critical sucess happen to be able to craft the next affix without losing stability or even making it 100% sure not to get damaged at all … but i like the gamble of not knowing if you get that affix you need… another thing that could be interesting with crit sucess could be a random affix/unique stat litteraly added to the item some that would improve skills in particular ie: forge strike has a chance to cast twice or more duration on storm totem etc… but that could only happen once so i get why it prolly won’t fit the need right now xD although something like that could add to the search for the HOLY sh… grail…xD
IMHO, crafting should become more successful as you level. If you were learning to craft better gear, by the time you reach max level, you should be able to craft gear to T20 with a much better success rate than at level 25. Practice makes perfect, yanno?
I think that would cause major economy problems when trade is introduced. There needs to be something in the game to strive for, else the game gets boring fast.
Now I didn’t say it was even a 50% chance to succeed at max level. Just better odds than at lower levels. Now I have NO idea what the base success rate is at any given time since we all know that failure at 90%+ is common enough to warrant pointing it out. Just saying that, for an example, at max level, that you should have a better chance at succeeding at that 90%+ than someone at lower level. Now whether that is something that is inherent (unknown) due to level or lowering the percent of instability caused by crafting or perhaps even a dropped relic that only occurs at very high levels of arena or monolith that would allow a 105%+ chance to succeed, is something worth considering. As some have pointed out already, failing so often seems more of a punishment than a reward for those 1000’s of tries and hours of farming mats to get what you NEED for your build. Maybe even adjust the odds of crafting success based on the item being crafted versus what specialty you are. (ie a sorcerer crafting a wand/cloth item or a forge guard crafting a sword/plate item) I don’t want to break the system. I just want a more balanced system. I don’t expect that at level 20 I will have ANY T5’s on ANY equipment. (Although this has happened, I don’t expect it) However, I do expect that at max level I should be able to craft many T4+ items to aid my build. One way around the trade thing would be like other RPG’s have done and that is to bind the item to the person once they start crafting so that it cannot be sold. That way, if you happen to get a drop that you don’t want or even a gambled item, perhaps others will and those are the items that you can trade/sell even if it is just to destroy it for more relics. I prefer to play mages, but I have tons of minion buff relics that will prob never get used by myself. Those I would put up for trade just to earn a little more gold to gamble with and try for the items I didn’t get in drops.
i’m sorry if this is too blunt, but what you have said here is complete nonsense. if you have a 90% chance, you have exactly that: a 9 in 10 chance of success and a 1 in 10 chance of failure. 105% chance to succeed is not a thing that exists. you remember more of the times that a craft failed at 90% chance to succeed than the times that it worked, because we are evolutionarily geared to remember failures more than successes. this topic has been discussed to death on the forum (probably even in this thread), and the devs have responded that in their testing the success rates are accurate.
i’ve used D&D as an example before, so i’ll use it again here: earlier tonight i played D&D with my friends. we rolled 1s several times and we rolled 20s several times. a couple of sessions ago, our barb rolled two 20s back to back on the same turn. on a 20 sided die, you have a 5% chance of rolling either a 1 or a 20 (or any specific number), and both happen, usually multiple times a session. crafting is the same way. you may fail a high-percent chance craft multiple times in a short span due to a streak of bad luck, but the chance to succeed is always what the game lists. there’s no hidden mechanic, it’s just straight up luck.
having said all that, i wouldn’t be totally opposed to an increase in the chance of critical successes while crafting at higher levels. since the game doesn’t tell us what the percentage of a critical success is, i have no idea, but let’s say it’s a 5% chance currently and by level 100 it becomes a 7.5% or 10% chance. i can think of 2 times since the critical success mechanic was added that i had 2 of them within a few attempts on the same item. it feels great when you get one, and even better when it’s on one of the stats you’re actually trying to improve. having that happen more often would seem like a reasonable version of what you suggested, imo.
@VapingNeckbeard I think this post is the one you’re referring to:
As well as this one:
@starhawk as Vaping said, our brains are hardwired to see patterns so that we can either avoid the bad thing or catch the nice tasty thing. It is possible to craft an item with multiple t4 affixes (ie, 3x t4s) from a white base, it’s just unlikely. As you get to higher levels you get drops with higher tier affixes which makes it much easier to craft up to 3 or 4 t5 affixes (eg, if you’re starting from 2-3 t2-3 affixes) which achieves your desired outcome (making it easier to get 4x t4/5s at higher levels).
Needless to say, this topic has been done to death…
Just for the record, we don’t have any sort of level scaling crafting chance improvement. We have considered it many times but we didn’t do it because people may feel that while leveling they need to put potential crafting items in their stash, switch to a high level character, craft on them and switch back. The burden of optional play can result in unfun and flow breaking scenarios. We try to avoid this wherever possible.
Just curious. If higher level character enchant scaling was something that was wanted would it be easy to implement a item level requirement increase on crafted items. What I mean by this is if you were to take that level 4 item go to a level 100 char and enchant on it it made it only wearable by level 100’s. This would prevent char swapping for enchant bonuses.
Level requirements for items are derived from the properties of the item rather than being a property of the item itself. We could change this but it would require changing item serialization alongside the change.
There could potentially be a balanced system that allows scaling success rate that wouldn’t necessarily wreck the economy.
A VERY basic idea would be to allow leveling of the crafting bench just like a characters skill. It could be leveled up to 20. It would be account wide to prevent that moving of mats to the high level character. It could have a tree just like skills so that people would specialize their crafting bench differently. It could also be a mechanic that can be build around. Have some of the best affixes only craftable at certain bench levels, or certain affixes only shatterable at certain bench levels, etc.
Obviously leveling should take very much longer since it is account wide, and maybe put increasing gold costs or some other cost along with each level. This would make it so items crafted up on a high tier bench would require a bit more cost on the market to better balance the market. The cost to level up the bench could even be something crazy like sacrificing some combined levels of unique items.
Kind of piggybacking off item serialization - are there any plans to change item progression? Something close to polearms where there is gradual progression on crit based polearms from early levels to Sovyna as opposed to axyon that has no progression whatsoever. Same thing goes for other items like ward retention boots, other base items that only exists at one tier. I’d like to see base item progression where you’re not stuck with one base item if you’re aiming for a particular build (axyon as the only choice for elemental builds).
Serialization in this context refers to the order that the information that defines an item is covered to and from a string of numbers so that it can be understood by the game.
However, we do plan to add more item base types as we go on. Ideally all base types have custom 2D and 3D art. This takes a long time and we have a few new item types to make this patch for a certain new class. It’s one of those things that will keep expanding though.
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