Most of which won’t be valid on the item you’re crafting, but yes, the odds of getting a desirable affix is unlikely to be high. That said, this is an aRPG, if you could guarantee every single affix & tier, you wouldn’t have any loot hunt.
@Heavy @Llama8 Thanks for the replies. Both very valid points.
Lets see how it plays out but my gut - not the most reliable measure after last nights Vindaloo 
- still thinks magic items with 2 affixes you want + Glyph of Despair will be the best alternative
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Just to be sure, I didn’t wanted to play down your concerns.
The bolded word is very important.
Overall there will probably still be a “best way” for a lot of cases, depending what you want to achieve.
But we definitely have more ways and stategies now, then before.
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Yeah, IMO, a rare with 2-3 of the desired affixes and the rest of the slots open would be the most desirable option for crafting up to t20. Hopefully items from the gambler will have less forging potential, say 20% less.
This would probably be the simplest way to resolve everyones concern about the gambling loot route becoming too good to ignore…
I mean it makes good/perfect implicit white bases seem very useless with the change. If everyone ends up just hiding those after the change then it would have ‘hurt’ but again can only tell after trying it. So now instead of keeping an eye out for Hollow blades with low instability or the mods I want, I just filter for Hollow blades with Flat void/crit which is surely rarer.
Even with rune of shaping changes, its hard for these since both roll individually. For eg: Sorcery staff the mana cost and adaptive dmg seem to be linked so a high roll adaptive will always have a high roll mana cost. But for turquoise rings/hollow blades, each is random so
if you want a 40+ flat void and 10+pen its going to be much harder with shapings than just say getting 12+ endurance on engraved gauntlets.
In my experience so far it’s pretty obscenely rare to go above t15 with a white 0 instability item. I feel it’s adequately hard to get 2x t5 on a white base which is commonly done for weapons and even then those aren’t BiS since high tier suffixes generally pretty good to have.
Idk guess I’m just not completely sold on glyph of chaos and hope but can only tell after playing with it. Would be cool to have another glyph alternative to hope that reduces the FP cost by say 50%. So if you roll say 2 FP it becomes 1 FP but if you roll 15 FP it becomes 7/8 which makes a big difference.
I think having only one Glyph for that purpose is better and other glyphs do entirely different things.
I am aware that your suggestion would lead to both runes having use-cases where they might be slightly better then the other, but ultimately, they serve the same purpose and are very redundant.
Having less very same-y/redundant options and more vastly different options is the way to go IMO.
It makes the crafting system less bloated, just for the sake of adding more stuff.
There is this small game, which is abbreviated with 3 letters, that has this kind of problem IMO 
Not necessarily if I read that right. Rune of Ascendance text said
That says to me that it can’t turn it into a Unique that can’t randomly drop, which the Fractured Crown can’t.
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I disagree. There are many instances where LE has “very same-y/redundant” options such as
- damage, 7 different damage elements which only differ by skill colour. Why have so many different types?
- defences, dodge/block/glancing blow are RNG-based, armour/resists are both deterministic, why have multiple options for each RNG/deterministic? And, why have affixes that do the same thing? Flat/% hp, both add hp, one of them could be removed, same for flat/% dodge or flat/% armour.
- skills, the Sentinel alone has 5 different melee skills that all masteries can access (+1 locked behind each mastery), surely they’re all “very same-y & redundant”? Why not simplify it down to 1 melee & 1 spell? That would definitely be the way to go IMO… All other classes are similar in that regard.
IMO, @GoldenExperience’s suggestion of a glyph that always works but reduces the cost of a craft by a % is a good one, it would have a more deterministic effect on crafting cost compared to the RNG effect that the glyph of hope has. That’s what makes them different & less “same-y/redundant”.
1 Like
These changes sound amazing, straight up. I’m extremely excited to play this patch, great work.
All crafting changes looks very tasty! “Bad looking” and frustrating rng gone and that is awesome. New possibilities are really cool and interesting, 0.8.4 will be great! 
Excellent. Very excited. I know myself and a lot of others made the same points you do at the beginning and it’s good to see the responsiveness. I’m sure this was not an easy system to overhaul!
The existing crafting was functional and did serve its purpose but the challenge you had was convincing people to avoid basic human psychology. I’m glad you re-examined things.
Not really the same, to give an example, on an item with 30 FP but perfect implicit/rare mod so you want to craft on it, General crafting roll is between 1-15 FP cost meaning if you get 3 10+ rolls in a row(and all 3 miss the 25% glyph chance), item bricked whereas if you use this glyph you have a guaranteed 5-6 crafts even if you have the worst luck and they are all 10+ rolls.
Hope is basically either you get lucky or don’t. This one always reduces cost but its negligible for lucky FP rolls and really reduces the impact of unlucky rolls.
Yeah this is exactly what I was going for thanks!
To clarify it can give +2 tiers. “+1 tier to a random affix” includes the affix being upgraded, just like it does now, so you can end up gaining 2 tiers of the affix you’re crafting on.
9 Likes
damage, 7 different damage elements which only differ by skill colour. Why have so many different types?
Each one is tied to one or more ailments (like ignite or chill) that give some extra meaning. Additionally, there is always the mechanic devs can use so that some enemies may take reduced damage from a specific element. Also, if you only have 2 elements then it gets visually boring and getting 5% fire resistance isn’t nearly as exciting as getting 35% fire resistance (since you would need to maintain a relative amount of effort for resistance stacking).
defences, dodge/block/glancing blow are RNG-based, armour/resists are both deterministic, why have multiple options for each RNG/deterministic? And, why have affixes that do the same thing? Flat/% hp, both add hp, one of them could be removed, same for flat/% dodge or flat/% armour.
Dodge is binary, thus arguably the antithesis of deterministic. Since you can have multiple layers of defense, mixing RNG and deterministic can add excitement without you being 1-shot. I will agree with you that flat and % modifiers are redundant UNLESS flat modifiers are adding to a base that is then modified by % modifiers. I haven’t finished reading all of the mechanics for the game yet so I am still unsure how that works.
skills, the Sentinel alone has 5 different melee skills that all masteries can access (+1 locked behind each mastery), surely they’re all “very same-y & redundant”? Why not simplify it down to 1 melee & 1 spell? That would definitely be the way to go IMO… All other classes are similar in that regard.
I was playing around with Dammitt’s character builder and noticed that the sentinal has way too many abilities that do the same thing. This is particularly true of the void knight class that basically forces you into a hybrid or spell-based build from what I could tell. I tried making a void knight with an aoe physical attack, strong single-target physical attack, a defensive skill, a utility skill, and a skill that will help with mana. I found a staggering lack of options for single-target melee attacks (throwing didn’t appeal to me or function well with this build) and mana management despite having access to so many skills between the base class and the master class. I am definitely up for making changes so that distinct builds work for single-target, aoe, physical, magical, and hybrid builds.
Regarding the changes to the crafting, it seems mostly positive. However, the odds (1-15) on an item that has 30 forging potential does not feel deterministic AT ALL. You could get 2 crafts or 30 crafts. That is a STAGGERING disparity. I would personally like to have some relative idea of how many crafts I will be able to attempt in order to accurately devise a strategy for crafting each item. If it were 5-8 then I would know that at max I have 6 crafts and at minimum I have 4. Something with a bit less extreme RNG would make things easier to plan for and adjust. In my humble opinion, there are already plenty of RNG variables to account for (namely type and value of affix) - so having wild RNG on how much we can modify is too much. Why bother adding an affix when you still need to upgrade other ones? It would just push me to do far less general crafting while I become super picky about having amazing items to craft on.
Also, for those that mentioned that Gambler - with the issue I just mentioned, if I wanted to craft endgame gear then I would 100% use the gambler EVEN WITH a 25%-50% penalty to forging potential because that could STILL give me 10 more rolls on an item type and effectively allow for a brute-force crafting method. Using the Gambler would be the superior option at least 90% of the time.
So can we have the same affix sealed and normal twice on an item?
30% inc. health body armour?
20% inc. health helmet?
+100 & 10% inc. health belt?
I think I’d rather it be cumulatively more. Like the more affix levels, the more it uses or the wider the range gets.
This is how it works. The average is around 1-15, but it varies based on tier for affix shards, and is also different for different runes. For example upgrading to tier 2 costs 1-10 forging potential and upgrading to tier 5 costs 1-22. Keep in mind that these exact values are subject to change as we’re not completely finished tuning the system.
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First time in my life i will be a lucky gamer … my dices always rolled LOW in all my gaming time.
(i won the roll for my world of warcraft ( Cataclysm) legendary weapon with a 13 … thx to the guy that rolled an 8…).
Wow, this goes a lot further than I’d expected. I’d been pessimistic about the future of crafting but this seems really great. I’m impressed.
It looks like we still have the weird situation where drops with 3-4 high tier affixes are unintuitively much less likely to be useful than those with 1-2. Glyph of Chaos is something but it’s still a fairly harsh RNG gauntlet just to get these items through the starting gate. I understand why you’re conservative about a completely targeted Glyph of Removal, but imo it could be properly costed and work well under the Forging Potential system. It would also be interesting to have a Chaos-type glyph with a more controlled effect (eg. randomise within a category of similar affixes, ailment->ailment, class specific->class specific, etc.), especially if the number of affix options keeps increasing in the future.
Cannot be bothered reading through the whole thread, to busy, so i will ask the question.
What happens to the items that are already fractured in our equipped slots? will they be reverted or are they just still fractured?