Hello everyone, been playing since the beginning and have quit as of recently. The reason being as a lot of people I know is because we went CoF 
.
Fist let me explain:
The amount of time / XP it takes to max out ranks is astronomical which is fine.
What isnât fine is having realized CoF was a mistake ( heres why)
There is no way to target a specific item and most items we ALL want are so rare that we end up with duplicates of SOOOOO many worthless items itâs pointless.
For instance I need 1 jungle queens whatever belt and I have 450+ ( stopped counting after that) of worthless unique belts and not 1 is what I need.
Those 450+ are all from prophecies with no way to farm specifically for the one I want.
Meanwhile everyone that went Merchants Guild has bought all their end game items they wanted and are maxing out corruption.
There NEEDS to be a one time faction swap WITHOUT making us go through all that ridiculous grinding again.
The game lost its fun when Iâve spent a far majority of the hours played searching for one item which shouldnt be that rare to begin with ( donât get me wrong I absolutely love ARPG grinds and the rarer the better in my eyes but again the other faction can literally go buy it right now right this second).
Not asking for major game changes just allow us players 1 faction swap which wouldnât hurt the game in anyway shape or form.
Hereâs hoping either CoF gets a massive upgrade or something changes because the 130+ hours or whatever I have was very enjoyable but it got to a point I hit a brick wall ( red ring altaria has dropped many more times than the belt and Iâm not even wanting that)
But⌠you can already swap factions⌠And you donât lose your progress. You only lose favour, and can only equip faction-specific gear. But not all your equips will be faction-specific anyway.
So switch freely all you wantâŚ
If I swap to Merchants Guild right now I will NOT be max rank like I am in CoF. Thatâs the issue, most of us in CoF have realized it was a mistake but there is no way I am spending the insane amount of time it takes to re level it to max level. Which is why they need to add a 1 time âoops I FD upâ and allow swapping 1 time with no consequences.
I know you wonât be max rank⌠But it actually doesnât take long to level up MG to the point where you can buy exalteds and 2LP unique items in the bazaar ⌠Sure it takes long to unlock the last 2 ranks, but you donât need those to buy exalted and 1LP+ items ⌠The higher the corruption in empowered monoliths, the faster you level up your faction. Get to work.
You only need rank 5 to get exalteds on the bazaar⌠In case you didnât know this⌠Merchantâs Guild levels up from more than just XP⌠You actually get reputation from buying and selling items as wellâŚ
I am sorry to inform you, this is objectively wrong.
You can argue that the tools available to you are not enough, but maybe you are hunting for the super duper high end stuff which even with these tools is hard to get and should be. But that is how it should be.
LE has more target farm opportunities then any other similar game.
This isnât true, though. You get favour from XP. Each point of favour you gain grants you 2 points to your reputation. Each point of favour you spend grants another 2 points. And this is true for both factions. If you spend points buying/selling/gambling in MG you get the same reputation as if you roll prophecies/reroll/gamble in CoF.
So both factions progress at the same speed. All that matters is how many points you get/spend and those are related to XP.
If I want to farm âThe Slabâ for example I have no way to target farm it. I can pick unique shield nodes in the monoloith but that is a big stretchfrom target farming because I farm shields. Not even the base of certain shields but all of them that are able to drop. This makes the chance of getting the shield I want low to begin with. If I then need a 2LP as an upgrade for my 1LP Slab things get even more out of hand.
The only real way to target farm in this game is going for the market guild because you get gold everywhere and you can buy what you want.
From your point of view target farming is is a completely different thing that most people think it is. I rather farm a specific enemy that drops one specific item at a low rate instead of farming something that hase a big loottable making it even harder to get what I want.
So I canât farm a specific item i want. I can only farm a specific item type, shields for example, and never drop the shield I look for because I canât target farm specific items. The latter is what most people think target farming is or should be.
The system in place is not different to farming boss X in game Y that has item Z in the loottable. the only difference is that you can aim to get a lot of shields with CoF but not the one you want. Itâs just a number game and you increase the chane to get the item you want by a little bit and by almost nothing once you look for 3LP+ items. CoF isnât potent enough the way it is implemented and will always fall short compared to the market guild.
Then again I like CoF more because what do I have left to do in a game without real content when I have all my gear? Right nothing ^^.
We can start discussing the definition of target farming sure.
But that would be a whole discussion just around that.
The way you describe target farming is something I never want to see in a random loot based game.
There is a giant pool of random loot in this game and there are several ways to narrow down the potential outcome, such as this is targeting specific kinds of loot.
People say target farming is not possible in LE without even talking about any of these multiple mechanics just loose all credibility for me personally. Stuff like this whether you count it as Target farming" or not needs to be part of the discussion.
And yet OP hasnât talked about any of these.
Namely Timeline Specific Unique/Set Rewards, Rune of Ascendence and Item Type/Unique Blessings.
All of these can be combined for some real target farming, while obviously still being random, that is the nature of these types of games and if you donât want that you might be in the wrong genre.
My points still stands even if you disagree with the terminology.
Last Epoch has more tools at your disposal to narrow down the heaps of random loot you get, than any other game in the genre.
OK well just the last sentence wasnât true I guess
Iâm completely okay with your points there are no issues with that. Itâs just ones target farming is another ones random loottable. As you said LE has mechanics to help to come to a positive outcome.
On the other hand Iâve seen the stream of a friend who was hunting for specific gloves on a specific boss with all the gloves prophecies I can think of. He droped an ocean of gloves and non of them were the gloves he was looking for.
At the end of the day everything is rng and Iâm okay with it. LE has so little meat on the bone that the only thing that would keep me playing is the item hunt and thatâs why I picked CoF. Everyone who is against rng stuff should realy go to the market guild and never look back because CoF will always be terrible compared to the market.
No, there doesnât⌠but there needs to be proper mechanics which donât dick you over sideways and make you restart the game from scratch basically⌠as by the end youâll be decked out in the equipment form CoF, which is fine.
Hindering to use that to grind up MG then - as youâve already invested tons of time to get your gear - shouldnât be a thing though.
The current faction mechanic limitations are one of the worst Iâve seen in gaming history.
I fully agree on the large time-investment for the ranks to be nonsensical. At least for MG. In CoF they make actually sense since they permanently and consistently increase your rewards, MG doesnât though, their system is utterly faulty there.
I do though?
My favor is gone⌠for all characters.
My items canât be used anymore.
How much more progress should I loose to count?
Really?
Because last I looked it takes around level 100 to have access to rank 8 of MG. Thatâs somewhere between 10-20 hours of time investment.
Given that youâre through the whole game as a new player in empowered monoliths by that time I would argue that âyes, it takes a ridiculous amount of timeâ even. Nonsensically so, utterly baffling even.
If there were - which isnât - more progression and the access to items would be - which isnât - properly handled then there wouldnât - which also again⌠isnât the case - no problem. But alas⌠here we are.
Weapons.
So 1/12 of the available equipment, ignoring idols.
Rank 7 is the minimum requirement for empowered monoliths, which you wonât have reached by that time.
Which isnât quite right.
Rep is handled the following way:
You get 2 rep per favor gotten. You get 2 rep per favor spent.
Nothing more, nothing less. Hence âSelling itemsâ is not true, âListingâ them is, which is a very important distinction here as itâs otherwise misleading towards those atrocious flooded â0 goldâ listings again.
LP is a pure aspirational mechanic, not needed in any way, a bonus on top of the common progression.
It is currently not in a state where itâs mandatory and a pure chase-mechanic, youâre not ever expected to actually fulfill the chase reliably. 2 LP Iâll argue is something which is highly achievable for any item with LP in the game as a player in MG without using MG even, in the current state of the game.
Anything rare with that will obviously take dozens of hours of play-time⌠and anything beyond hundreds or even thousands of hours, but thatâs a given.
Which weâll see changing in the future as power-creep is a thing, without relevant content for it we wonât see a change though and actually shouldnât even as it would be detrimental for the longevity of the game.
Yes! After trying to buy your 10 million gold exalted item which youâve got 6 copies of in CoF during the same time and buying your 25 million 2 LP item because itâs a rare one youâve got your upgrade which just cost you around 20 hours of play-time re-investing all favor into listing items and hoping someone needs them more then you do.
A market is no miracle machine, itâs a sole re-distribution method, nothing more and nothing less. If something is rare demand and prices are high and hence you getting it will take loads of time. If itâs very rare then demand is so high that no supply is even available.
Divination card farming in PoE is also target-farming. So no, the example was absolutely true.
Div-cards have a high pool and a low chance to provide the wanted outcome, but it will come.
CoF is exactly the same. Your prophecy has a pool but the wanted outcome is not 100% guaranteed and even canât be⌠unless you want to pay not 4k for the prophecy but 140k for it per try. Would that be better?
Yes, the same as target farming a boss. You have a chance to get the specific item rather then the full pool of items. The lower the pool the higher the chance. Hence by reducing the possible pool you âtargetâ a said item, no matter what it is.
Thatâs âtarget farmingâ.
Yes, and thatâs a given and wonât be able to be avoided. CoF is a SSF-style mechanic which eases the acquisition rate of items to make it a viable way to play the game without interacting with trade.
If you want efficiency trade is impossible to beat and the equivalence standing in how CoF is presented is misleading to a degree. This is - in my eyes - a design error but after sitting down 5 minutes to think about the situation you shouldâve known that beforehand. Itâs a given.
Absolutely true!
But I guarantee you that youâll never get a perfected gear set in your lifetime. I donât think anyone actually will.
It mandates a double T7 exalted on a LP 4 unique with all rolls being maxed on top. unrealistic.
Boss-drop uniques are not affected by CoF.
This is an oversight in my eyes.
So I agree that it needs work there, youâre 100% right.
Itâs not that the prophecies were bad but that he had 0% chance for the boss-drop unique to even drop in that case, theyâre not in the pool.
And⌠itâs kinda hard to target-farm something when you donât have it in the pool in the first place.
Yeah, itâs a 1.0, actually⌠it shouldnât even be called âreleasedâ since weâre missing 3 chapters of the main story, which is an awful state for a release candidate and shouldnât be allowed to be called released in the first place.
But content-wise itâs in a decent state for a 1.0 with more to come. The game will grow for sure in depth.
@Kulze You keep your reputation for each faction when you switch ⌠Meaning, you donât lose your progress ⌠Favor is so easy to get. Run a couple monos. Also, you dont need rank 8 in MG to achieve anything⌠You can buy exalteds at rank 5 which is super fast to attain⌠If you want Uniques with LP thats also EARLY in MG to buy⌠So alot of your points are irrelevant⌠EHG actually made swapping factions really good. And again, MOST of your equips at any given time, on any character will not be faction specific. Most of my characters only have a couple faction specific equips on at any time lmao
What youâre saying isnât technically correct.
At rank 5 you can only buy exalted weapons. At rank 6 you can only buy LP unique weapons. At rank 7 is when you can buy all exalteds and at rank 8 is when you can buy all LP uniques.
So, the favor I earn is not a form of progression?
The gear I earn is not a form of progression?
The only progression hence is levels and state of the game?
Guess by that logic I have no reason to play on when reaching level 100 and empowered monoliths!
Your argument is fairly badly thought through there, it takes only a miniscule amount of the context into consideration.
Well then, re-hash the whole thing and look back. What does Rank 7 and 8 do exactly in MG?
And what does Rank 5 and 6 do exactly in MG?
Care to explain to me in that case? I made my argument with a very distinct expectation after all⌠but maybe itâs wrong, be free.
It is one of the most confining and badly implemented systems on the market which Iâve seen in 30 years of gaming.
That comment is baffling.
But Iâm curious how you come to that conclusion definitely, because neither from a standpoint of design itâs well handled (double-dipping friction mechanics, loss of achievements) but also has consequences for your whole account made with a single character in a negative aspect. If I have 5 MG character and 6 CoF characters and I wanna switch one over to the other all my other characters loose the favor.
Are you sure about that? Given that 35% of items baseline are CoF at Rank one, then we have a 1/4th chance to drop triple idols. This means instead of 4 idols you drop 6, which is a 33% idol drop-rate for CoF. Then we also have the prophecies, all of those items are tagged. We also have LP upgrades being automatically tagged CoF, which is a baseline 50% increase in chance, relating to the highest LP values having an ever more likely chance to become tagged rather then un-tagged.
So Iâll rather argue that the chance of a high-quality unique of your build being CoF tagged is around 80%, also if your exalted item is CoF tagged then your legendary will be CoF tagged.
Creating a legendary is the end of the end-game mechanics in LE, often needing tens of hours to get the respective unique base with LP as well as the fitting exalted item crafted to the state which is acceptable. In extreme cases for 3 LP to 4 LP items, especially helmets and body armor itâll take hundreds of hours to achieve that, even in CoF.
And you want to tell me that âitâs no issue when I loose that effortâ?
It goes against any reasonable value-conservation for the player. Taking away any sort of time-investment is always a critical aspect, it can even be used as a distinct game mechanic (perma-death, HC, such stuff) as it makes every moment meaningful. But when it comes to already achieved progress in terms of a choice with non-direct impact on the combat-side of things for a game distinctly focusing on that aspect itâs the sheer antithesis of what is considered âgood designâ.
Itâs utterly and entirely baffling to read that whole post even. And I donât want to sound condescending intentionally⌠but itâs hard not to⌠because I am in that case. Youâre basically saying âyes, screw me over, thatâs how I want itâ without receiving anything for it. The methods used in faction change are usually input into gameplay because it gives us mentally a push to perceive things as âdangerousâ in our mind. Our value is endangered, we wanna preserve it and hence when we manage to do it thereâs the hormonal reward of our body telling us âgood jobâ for it.
Now to put it into perspective:
Go ahead and tell me how it feels when you realize - for whatever reason - that the pastures are greener on the other side, and instead of taking your assets with you youâve to start over from â0â and build it all back up there should you decide to switch. Ever heard of âsunken-cost-fallacyâ? If so then youâll realize that now this person in that situation has 3 choices to make and 2 are very likely with the 3rd only being a short-term solution.
Option 1: Keep on doing what youâve done.
This will cause the person to be unhappy, the investment into the game becomes ever less valuable. âI couldâve made so much more otherwiseâ. Short-term as it causes permanent frustration to build up.
Option 2: Restart
This is one of the options chosen, the least likely long-term one.
Option 3: Quit
Yep, simple as that. âNeed to restart or do it âbadlyâ?â Nope⌠Iâm outta here. And this is the most likely outcome.
Good job EHG I would say! NotâŚ
I stopped reading after the second sentence.
Most builds donât require LP Uniques. Youâre kinda getting into the weeds here⌠My intent was to help OP understand that switching factions really isnât a big deal, and itâs pretty quick to gain back whatever you sacrifice by switching. Have a nice day folks. Iâm over this thread.
You might want to read on because your argumentation is ridiculous. Might learn something from it 
General suggestion to invest time into stuff youâre thinking you know what youâre talking about but donât.
I agree with the LP statement. But you still need rank 7 just to get most of the exalted gear. So thereâs still a lot of grinding.
Rep and rank no⌠u in fact do lose progression
As u prove here. U may have a couple of faction tagged gear. Not everyone is going to have a small amount of thier gear faction tagged. When u really think hard about how switching works its not good IMO.
As for ranking MG buying LP items isnt early thing u can do. Gaining favor is easy depending on where ur at in end game.
I have the reached max character limit ⌠Meaning I have some 25 characters ⌠Most of them are on empowered monoliths⌠Most of my characters only ever use a couple faction specific equips at a time⌠Iâve played 500 hours.
You do NOT lose your rank or reputation when you switch factions. You only lose favor.